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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 11, 2014 17:22:36 GMT
I have noticed that the xbox side often seems to have a hard time coming up with people to participate in some event types or getting proper comitments from people. I am tossing an idea about in my head that we should discuss and iron out some details. Combining Bebbos blacklist idea with LewisTheGrims new concept for RRGP and also a little bit of my latest Need To Dominate event here is what my initial thoughts were.
We create official RR racing teams sort of like major league and minor league baseball here in the US. These teams would be timezone focused also.
I was thinking we would have two zones at first and two leagues for each zone. The zone would mean that you would always be available time wise to race with your team for whatever need. Lets say for example that ensyy and some other guys from EU would be the EU major and myself and three other US members would make up US major then we would also have EU and US minor teams.
The teams would determine what times fit them like a 4 or 5 hour window. Any challenge from other crews etc that come in that window would be met by that team. It would also be the time window where the team would be expected to get practice together a couple times a week.
Each team member would come with his own custom track choice. There would be 4 team members and those 4 tracks would be the ones you practice regularly...among other races...and would be your chosen tracks for any challenge.
Any crew member can request to join the minor league team. Inorder to get in they have to challenge the team on one of thier chosen tracks. If the challenger comes in any place other than last he earns the spot in the team bumping out whoever lost. He then introduces his track choice to the team and it goes in the practice playlist.
Any minor league team member can do the same challenge to the major league team taking a spot in the majors and bumping the loser down to minors.
Team members would be ejected if they miss too many practices or challenges.
Each team would need to have color coordinated coupe, muscle, sport and super cars. (Preferably major league would be crew red). Major and minor would need different colors. EU and US should be slightly different also. This way if we dont have challenges we can run crew events with team vs team on weekends where we can organize zone overlaps.
Please give me any thoughts on is this a good direction or ideas on how to improve this without making it too overly complicated. Maybe some color choices.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 20:26:40 GMT
Its a big step Luap especially in commitment, but I think we definitely have to do something on the Xbox side of things. Hey it sounds great and will take all participants to make it a successful addition to crew. Im on board with you Luap and will help RR1 as much as I can in my time window. 9:00-12:00 est. Tue-Fri.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 21:01:37 GMT
It seems complicated to me lol. It requires a lot of time to organize this kind of stuff but I'm definitely up for it if we want to do it. We dont have many active people - there are tons of people on the crew but I always end up playing with the same 6-7 people counting the US ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 21:03:22 GMT
Sounds like fun, but I think maybe the cap for earning someones spot needs to be a little bit higher, as it doesn't require consistency over time. It's a good concept that needs to be developed, because we need the activity boost and to make things a bit more interesting then they currently are ;-)
I'm thinking that for CvC we need as you say a Primary and Secondary team that run with eachother and practice regularly, in both EU and US. Of course, how we currently play across the timezones and practice would still be welcome. The idea of using a blacklist to decide the teams is good, but I think it needs a few modifications. I like the idea of how the track selection works, with each member of the Primary and Secondary teams making their own official picks for favourite track, and that these tracks should dominate the practice and events done in regard to the teams.
Personally I would run the blacklist more like a league. Anyone who think they will be consistently available in the timezone will be able to participate, we run a playlist of the selected tracks with a few variations of other tracks too on a regular basis as an event. (Like once or twice a week)
Instead of using the scoring system to monitor, we will use the total time and the fastest lap stat. An average is calculated based on the best 4 out of the last 6 events you participated in. (This is to monitor consistency in lap times, and total times, so regardless if you couldn't attend one event you can still be measured up agains't those who did)
Because the tracks run and the settings will only change when someone takes a position in the Primary and Secondary team it will then be alot easier to decide who's our best 1-4 and 5-8 racers at any given time. The primary team will take presedence in what we consider tough CvC battles, whilst the secondary team will be fighting some of the easier battles for practice. If someone is unable to attend a CvC, the best racer available from the list who can attend will be picked instead.
Hopefully you wont find this overly complicated, I left out alot of other ideas I had to simplify it to what will benefit us the most.
We shouldn't rush anything here though, but try to keep a discussion going for a while until we level out on some things we all agree on, as that's gonna make it alot easier to work out a strategy everyone is happy with :-)
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 1:16:23 GMT
It seems complicated to me lol. It requires a lot of time to organize this kind of stuff but I'm definitely up for it if we want to do it. We dont have many active people - there are tons of people on the crew but I always end up playing with the same 6-7 people counting the US ones. It just sounds complicated the way I posed it. It would just be 4 people on a team that would be called on for challenges. When no one is challenging than the team just practices together a lot. You can also include others in the practices. If someone from the second 4 man team wants in the A group they challenge them to a race. But they would be challenging on the A groups track...one that they have practiced many times and have perfected. I am also concerned about the numbers but frankly if we can't make a couple 4 man teams we need to just give up on crew challenges and just race people for fun because other crews are practicing like crazy. |
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 1:21:10 GMT
Sounds like fun, but I think maybe the cap for earning someones spot needs to be a little bit higher, as it doesn't require consistency over time. It's a good concept that needs to be developed, because we need the activity boost and to make things a bit more interesting then they currently are ;-) I'm thinking that for CvC we need as you say a Primary and Secondary team that run with eachother and practice regularly, in both EU and US. Of course, how we currently play across the timezones and practice would still be welcome. The idea of using a blacklist to decide the teams is good, but I think it needs a few modifications. I like the idea of how the track selection works, with each member of the Primary and Secondary teams making their own official picks for favourite track, and that these tracks should dominate the practice and events done in regard to the teams. Personally I would run the blacklist more like a league. Anyone who think they will be consistently available in the timezone will be able to participate, we run a playlist of the selected tracks with a few variations of other tracks too on a regular basis as an event. (Like once or twice a week) Instead of using the scoring system to monitor, we will use the total time and the fastest lap stat. An average is calculated based on the best 4 out of the last 6 events you participated in. (This is to monitor consistency in lap times, and total times, so regardless if you couldn't attend one event you can still be measured up agains't those who did) Because the tracks run and the settings will only change when someone takes a position in the Primary and Secondary team it will then be alot easier to decide who's our best 1-4 and 5-8 racers at any given time. The primary team will take presedence in what we consider tough CvC battles, whilst the secondary team will be fighting some of the easier battles for practice. If someone is unable to attend a CvC, the best racer available from the list who can attend will be picked instead. Hopefully you wont find this overly complicated, I left out alot of other ideas I had to simplify it to what will benefit us the most. We shouldn't rush anything here though, but try to keep a discussion going for a while until we level out on some things we all agree on, as that's gonna make it alot easier to work out a strategy everyone is happy with :-) I agree about discussing it all and ironing out the details...that's why I started here instead of in the event section. That is a lot more complicated that what I had hoped for. As I said in the GP thread I don't follow racing in real life and some of the methods used go over my head. I am not even sure I understand what your describing to be honest. Not saying it isn't good just saying I don't get it. I like simple  Can you make it more clear? Wouldn't that require an awful lot of record keeping for the times? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 9:00:04 GMT
Sounds like fun, but I think maybe the cap for earning someones spot needs to be a little bit higher, as it doesn't require consistency over time. It's a good concept that needs to be developed, because we need the activity boost and to make things a bit more interesting then they currently are ;-) I'm thinking that for CvC we need as you say a Primary and Secondary team that run with eachother and practice regularly, in both EU and US. Of course, how we currently play across the timezones and practice would still be welcome. The idea of using a blacklist to decide the teams is good, but I think it needs a few modifications. I like the idea of how the track selection works, with each member of the Primary and Secondary teams making their own official picks for favourite track, and that these tracks should dominate the practice and events done in regard to the teams. Personally I would run the blacklist more like a league. Anyone who think they will be consistently available in the timezone will be able to participate, we run a playlist of the selected tracks with a few variations of other tracks too on a regular basis as an event. (Like once or twice a week) Instead of using the scoring system to monitor, we will use the total time and the fastest lap stat. An average is calculated based on the best 4 out of the last 6 events you participated in. (This is to monitor consistency in lap times, and total times, so regardless if you couldn't attend one event you can still be measured up agains't those who did) Because the tracks run and the settings will only change when someone takes a position in the Primary and Secondary team it will then be alot easier to decide who's our best 1-4 and 5-8 racers at any given time. The primary team will take presedence in what we consider tough CvC battles, whilst the secondary team will be fighting some of the easier battles for practice. If someone is unable to attend a CvC, the best racer available from the list who can attend will be picked instead. Hopefully you wont find this overly complicated, I left out alot of other ideas I had to simplify it to what will benefit us the most. We shouldn't rush anything here though, but try to keep a discussion going for a while until we level out on some things we all agree on, as that's gonna make it alot easier to work out a strategy everyone is happy with :-) I agree about discussing it all and ironing out the details...that's why I started here instead of in the event section. That is a lot more complicated that what I had hoped for. As I said in the GP thread I don't follow racing in real life and some of the methods used go over my head. I am not even sure I understand what your describing to be honest. Not saying it isn't good just saying I don't get it. I like simple Can you make it more clear? Wouldn't that require an awful lot of record keeping for the times? We would just use the same screenshots at the end of each race that we would've used to keep score of the points. However, it means you couldn't get Ensyyy's spot because he was on vacation or something and couldn't attend that particular event. It would make the events more versatile as you don't have to attend every single one, but you would have to play regularly to keep your times top notch. Basically, for simplicity lets use 1 race and 1 racer in the example: | Event # | Total Time | Fastest Lap Time | | 1 | 3:12:612 | 1:31:123 | | 2 | 3:08:423 | 1:32:234 | | 3 | 3:08:827 | 1:31:985 | | 4 | 3:09:124 | 1:32:047 | | 5 | 3:41:532 | 1:45:178 | | 6 | 3:07:942 | 1:32:977 |
So obviously event 1 & event 5 got messed up by something odd happening, but only the best 4 out of last 6 events count so those total times are scrapped. This indicates your average time much better: 3:08:584 That would be the main indicator of your skill level on that particular track. So you would score above anyone with a worse avg time and below anyone with a better for that track. And your avg. position throughout the tracks used would then indicate your position on the leaderboard for racers. Saying wether you should be 1-4, 5-8 or 9+ (Primary, Secondary, or just listed) This also means we could use the leaderboard to pick from more then the top 16 racers. As for the fastest lap time, it wouldn't be used except in cases where 2 racers are very close together on their avg. time. If one of them seperates him/herself by having a much higher avg. on fastest lap time, they're obviously the better racer and just needs more practice for consistency (considering this has then been measured over 8 races in 6 events, making it a total of 54 fastest lap times used as indicators, it's not just luck). In which case they would take presedence to get a better chance to practice with the Secondary or Primary team, which one would assume would help them get more consistent lap times. |
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 10:34:45 GMT
I can understand how a list of times is averaged. What I don't get is how this all works in the field. Your wanting all the team members to keep logs of every race they do? Then if say I am new to the drew and I think I am faster than someone on the team what do I need to do? I won't have 6 events to average.
I don't want to make this into a bunch of work.
Something else, if someone goes on vacation or otherwise can't be around for an event, team 2 would be 4 alternates to fill in. The team 1 member would not lose his spot that easily. He would have to miss several or be completely incommunicado before getting bumped for it.
What if a challenger needs to run a playlist consisting of each of the 5 racers tracks, 4 team member tracks and 1 challenger track, and must not be last in the playlist in order to take a spot?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 11:17:25 GMT
I can understand how a list of times is averaged. What I don't get is how this all works in the field. Your wanting all the team members to keep logs of every race they do? Then if say I am new to the drew and I think I am faster than someone on the team what do I need to do? I won't have 6 events to average. I don't want to make this into a bunch of work. Something else, if someone goes on vacation or otherwise can't be around for an event, team 2 would be 4 alternates to fill in. The team 1 member would not lose his spot that easily. He would have to miss several or be completely incommunicado before getting bumped for it. What if a challenger needs to run a playlist consisting of each of the 5 racers tracks, 4 team member tracks and 1 challenger track, and must not be last in the playlist in order to take a spot? Nono, was thinking if we host the playlist of the 8 selected races from the Primary and Secondary group on a regular basis as an event, like twice a week, we would usually have someone recording anyways. That means we'll have the screenshots of finished race standings on each race. I was assuming you wanted to do this based on points originally, so I only suggest we use the time instead. So if you're new to the crew, and think you're faster then everyone else, you have to prove that you are over a period of 3 weeks roughly, for 6 such events to be hosted. The problem with vacation is then if you were measuring based on scores, as if Ensyyy weren't there in that event it would be easier to get a higher avg. finish, but the total time would still be revealing. If you are able to bump someone out from doing a single race, you only need to get lucky once to bump out one of our best racers if they get unlucky from a lightpole falling down or similar. I'm assuming we want consistently good drivers like Ensyyy to represent us in a CvC, even though I could get lucky and beat him once in a while. It seems you're mixing up the CvC and the Event term her, they are used in different manners. An event was just used for simplicity as I didn't have anything better to call it, but you can call it a try-out or whatever. Another problem with having a new crew member able to quickly take a spot in the Primary team is that it would mean the tracks would be constantly shifting, and the purpose of having set tracks being practiced would be lost. We don't want good drivers to be knocked out simply because they're having a bad day, but because someone else is being consistently better over time. Say me, you, lewis and ensyyy were the team. (forget about the secondary team for now as we're only splitting into Primary and Secondary for the CvC battles) We run an official practice of the 4 selected tracks from our team twice a week, and then we run our unofficial practices whenever we feel like it, or based on something unrelated to this. So what any contender has to think about is those 2 official practice events/try-outs each week. As a contender you can then attend 6 events spread over 2 months, or spread over 3 weeks. It would also be a possibility that we at some point increase the amount temporarily, and there is 6 events in a week for example. The base idea is minimum 2 per week though. So, Reignmillions just joined Red Rum and decides he wants to try out for the team, he start by just simply joining one of the try-outs and gets to know the team. He will then achieve his first set of lap times from that event, they will be recorded. Now he needs to attend minimum 3 more to build an average set of lap times. However, if he screws up on some of the races in the 3rd try out, and some others in the 4th, he can still keep the times from those he did good in from both, and scrap the bad ones. He will then have to attend a 5th event to get new times for those he did bad in. If he screws up that as well, he have one more shot at improving his times making it 6. Out of those 6 only the best 4 total times from each race will be used. It just so happens he screws up the 6th time as well, but he wants to keep trying, and keeps practicing. He attends the 7th event since he joined, and that means the 1st event will no longer count. After this he goes on a streak and wins every single playlist for 3 weeks, however, the reason he won was that You, Lewis and Ensyyy were all down in Tijuana partying together, so he was only really racing agains't me and a bunch of others trying for the top spots. I lose every time. This means my 4 best times went down alot and I'm obviously off the team. However, he improved his times so much that he beats all of your average times as well, and Craig who came in 2nd on each of these events beats Lewis' average times. That means Lewis gets booted off, because while he was partying, Craig showed he was a much better racer, without having to race agains't Lewis and wait for him to come back, because he consistently beat his times over 3 weeks. This allows us to keep it as dynamic as possible. The Secondary Team will work the same way, but will be using the 5-8 best average times on the list. Did that make more sense? |
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 11:42:06 GMT
Yeah, it does make more sense. It also does seem like a good idea but I for one don't want to be responsible for keeping track of that mess. Honestly, I don't know if I would even bother challenging if I had to go through all that. Thats mostly because I am lazy though...maybe others don't feel it is a problem.
Also I would like it if the general crew challengers could only take spots in team 2, and that team 2, while racing practices with team 1, would be the only ones with the opportunity to suplant team 1 members. This way team 1 would have always had some practice time on the various team 2 tracks that are in the playlist and could become team1 tracks if a challenger succeeds.
Would be nice to get some other opinions. Hello? Anyone out there?
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 11:57:46 GMT
What if we simplify by just keeping track of how many times a challenger beats a team 1 racer during practice? Like maybe over a period of 4 practice playlists the challenger has to beat a particular member 3 times in the whole playlist?
I don't know that seems like it would be overly difficult to do for anyone.
What if we just have an 8 man team that has challengers from outside but the "team1" just means the top available racers from the last practice round?
Like lets say this weeks practice resulted in ensyyy, craig, lewis, grassy, luap,fachro and two more in that order for the playlist. We get challenged to a 3vs3. Craig and grassy arent available at the set date so the team would be ensyyy, lewis and me. Or if we get a 6v6 and everyone is available we use the top 6 etc.
Maybe that would be better? We could still use something along your lines for challengers to get into the 8 man team.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 15:06:00 GMT
Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking  That our basis is the top 8, and then we can use our top players for the hard CvC's and give those further down a chance in easier CvC's to give them practice, sort of like a football team use their subs for the easy matches to give them practice on how to prepare and play through a CvC when it wont matter as much for the crew as a whole. And then that to take a spot in the top 8 someone has to prove themselves better over a certain time period. Internally in the top 8 the order could be decided by how well you do in the practice, I just thought it's important to account for when someone is unable to join a practice for whatever reason, it shouldn't hold the whole process back. So I thought keeping an avg lap time on the various tracks being practiced would make that easier. I also personally think it would be nice if we could somewhat seperate it between the different classes. I suck balls in certain classes, and do fairly well in others. I would hate to think that I would be able to take one of the spots for a CvC if we were challenged by a crew to do a motorcycle playlist for example, as I'm sure there's multiple people here that I would regularly beat in for example Sports and Super that would crush me once we jump onto motorcycles... I mean, I do see your point about work, but I think that depends alot on how much we develop the idea and look for solutions to make it work the same way, but easier as well. I mean, right now this is all just a brainstorming session to get idea yeah? With our heads put together and careful planning we should be able to find a system that's just as easy to use and works well, I hope... |
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 15:27:26 GMT
Any team member would be free to side step if they dont like the tracks, classes or competitors and the next in line would get the opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 16:23:25 GMT
like all games, people will always come and go as they get bored, find a new crew or a new game comes out. There will always be weeks where the crew is more active as a whole then others.
The biggest thing that needs sorting out as far as I can see is social club. Someone needs to make a new RRR crew with the correct leadership (not like it is now with the leaders who have disappeared off the face of the earth) so it can be kept organised.
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Post by LuapYllier on Aug 12, 2014 16:33:28 GMT
like all games, people will always come and go as they get bored, find a new crew or a new game comes out. There will always be weeks where the crew is more active as a whole then others. The biggest thing that needs sorting out as far as I can see is social club. Someone needs to make a new RRR crew with the correct leadership (not like it is now with the leaders who have disappeared off the face of the earth) so it can be kept organised. You put this in the right thread? Seems a little off topic. You know that leadership was sorted last week right? Mo-seph is now leader and he has been around a bit lately. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 17:21:49 GMT
like all games, people will always come and go as they get bored, find a new crew or a new game comes out. There will always be weeks where the crew is more active as a whole then others. The biggest thing that needs sorting out as far as I can see is social club. Someone needs to make a new RRR crew with the correct leadership (not like it is now with the leaders who have disappeared off the face of the earth) so it can be kept organised. You put this in the right thread? Seems a little off topic. You know that leadership was sorted last week right? Mo-seph is now leader and he has been around a bit lately. Your opening post was about xbox side being relatively inactive at the moment. But it does peak and drop off quite quickly over a short periods of time with the more casual racers coming and going. Looking back at june, when bebbo hosted that FUTO cup, we had a full house on the grid and 95% from RRR. The newer events are getting filled by people from other race crews to fill up the numbers (which is a good thing btw) while RRR 'to me' feels like its in a little bit of an off-peak phase. And also with one of our active racers switching crews recently. I may have gone off in a little in what I said but I think that was the main reason of this thread, active racers. or I got the wrong end of the stick lol I was unaware social club got sorted out, I never looked at it often. cool. |
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That our basis is the top 8, and then we can use our top players for the hard CvC's and give those further down a chance in easier CvC's to give them practice, sort of like a football team use their subs for the easy matches to give them practice on how to prepare and play through a CvC when it wont matter as much for the crew as a whole.