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Post by Davexen on Jun 5, 2014 13:55:34 GMT
I'd like to discuss the non-contact (or ghost) mode for racing. I noticed that the crew is pretty divided when it comes to its uses. Here are my reasons for favoring non-contact: Let's say for the sake of the argument I'm racing NittyDon. And let's say for the sake of simplicity that we're racing two laps on Down the Drain, both using an Elegy. Two hairpins, two long straights. Let's say that my first corner where you go slightly uphill is consistently fantastic. My second corner over the bridge is consistently decent. Don is the opposite; his first corner is decent while his second corner is fantastic. At the start of the race Don manages to get ahead of me. The first corner, where I would be faster than Don in a time trial or non-contact race, would be my chance to overtake Don. But I can't because he's ahead of me and the corner is too narrow to reliably overtake someone. I am forced to slow down and allow Don to take the corner first so as to not ram him off the road. So after the first corner Don is still ahead. We get to the second corner where Don has the advantage, and because my second corner is only decent he manages to pull away from me. So starting the second lap Don is still ahead. We arrive at the first corner again, even though my corner is better I can't overtake him because he had a head start thanks to his fantastic second corner of the first lap. We get to the second corner again, his is superior so he pulls away again, and wins the race. The entire race has been decided in the first few seconds where he managed to get in front of me, not allowing me to take advantage of the corner I need to win. Now imagine we're racing on the The Academic track. And imagine I'm not just racing Don, but Deej, Trak, Ref, Fnord, Cuz and Thunder as well. If I start in last place and they don't crash, how the hell am I supposed to stand a chance? It can be done, obviously. You can pull off a corner very quickly and overtake someone. But overtaking seven great drivers? Quite a task. The point I'm trying to make is that you are at SUCH a disadvantage starting in last place without ghost mode, especially on narrow tracks like this. The guy in first place can take the first corner any way he pleases. The guy in second will have to slow down to allow the guy in first to corner. Number three will have to wait for number two. Number four will have to wait for number three. Number five will have to wait for number four. Etcetera. If you start at the back of the pack, you will have to ease down until numbers one to seven all have made their way through this tricky narrow corner. Things take a turn for the worse when number three doesn't slow down enough to allow number two to pass. The others will smash into them as well, and the guy in last place will face a huge heap of cars blocking the entire corner. Meanwhile the guy who just happened to start at the front of the pack will be smooth sailing to victory. But let's say all goes right, we survive the first corner and I manage to catch up a little. Let's say I'm in third, Cuz is in second and numbers four to eight are on our tail. I decide to take my chance and overtake Cuz in a corner. The corner is more narrow than I anticipated, I didn't hit the brakes hard enough, or the car doesn't turn as smoothly as I would've thought. Cuz goes flying. I now have to wait for Cuz to get back on his feet and ahead of me before I can continue. Meanwhile the others have long since passed us. I feel like shit because I hit Cuz, Cuz is pissed because he is now in seventh place instead of second. It's a lose-lose. Well, except for the guys behind us. All this is only made worse by the starting grid not randomizing throughout a playlist. You will be at such a disadvantage if you start at the back every single race. I know there are a lot of members who are not great fans of non-contact outside of a few races like The Academic. Fnord, for example, said (I'm paraphrasing): "Skillfully overtaking someone is one of the most fun aspects of racing." I agree with that, but it's so hard to pull off when you're racing similarly skilled people. The roads are narrow, the races are generally short. Just look at the entries for the RRR Weekly Challenges. The fastest results are usually less than half a second apart. How can you be expected to overtake someone in a general race who's holding to the exact same racing lines and whose end result would be less than half a second slower than yours in a non-contact race? As you can tell I am a man of few words, lol. I just tried to get my point across clearly. I would really like to hear what your reasons for favoring standard or non-contact races are. Thanks for reading.
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Post by LuapYllier on Jun 5, 2014 14:17:14 GMT
I prefer to race other good drivers and learn control and skillful passing rather than racing the clock. I prefer non-contact when racing randoms as it removes the luck but with crew members the luck has already been removed. Racing with contact makes you a better driver.
However, we are also here to have fun. The host should be aware enough about the races he is hosting to make a judgement call. If a track is full of tight alleys and turns or otherwise difficult to pass on then it may be more fun to race without contact.
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Post by Cuz05 on Jun 5, 2014 15:59:09 GMT
Good post Dave. There's a few things I disagree with..... Me a great driver, me 2nd in that field of guys and me being pissed at 7th. All pretty implausible ;D Seriously tho, I was one of the louder anti-ghost voices but I've actually come round to it, to a degree. One of the main things is the static grid in playlists, its just not fair and contact racing compounds that immeasurably. If the grid were randomised I would obviously have slightly less interest in ghost but that's up to R* unfortunately. Running the RRR GP list the other day, I really felt aggrieved about the grid thing and it did make me consider running it non contact in future. The good side of that is that I'll be happier to up the player count for it. Currently its my race that limits it to 8, purely because of unavoidable contact. Another race that helped persuade me of its merits was Thunders sedan race. Had an epic battle with Bobchilli on it the other day, it was that tight and hard fought that I'm sure we'd have knocked each other about and possibly wrecked it if not for ghost. Also enjoyed trying to cover Refs car with my own in one of Fnords. Not in a pervy way..... On the other hand, the thing I hate about it is having a lot of cars on the screen in the 1st few corners. It's just preposterous and I find it sooo much more confusing and distracting than having the same number go into a corner with contact on. Why I like standard is that reason plus what Luap says. I couldn't care less about winning (I have to be that way with these guys, lol). I love a good tight race with 1 or 2 other guys jockeying for space and looking for the clean pass, corner after corner. That experience is exactly the same for me whether everyone else in the race is ahead of us or behind us. I don't like finishing dead last but I'm happy to do so if I've had a good, close battle for it and finished there because of my opponents nice moves. I'm not too bothered about getting accidentally taken out in a race if I've still got guys around me to battle against. Well, as long as its not race after race and I'm ditching good positions the whole time... I don't often get those positions.... All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the current balance, some races contact, some not, tho I'd rather we used ghost when it suits the race and vice versa. Clearly there's now guys that want to use it all the time but that's their choice. Since there's others that favour contact and I can host myself, I'm under no obligation to race one or the other more than I want to, there's enough choice. Which is exactly how it should be imo. Although you ghost riders will still have to put up with being called pansies.That's just the way of the world
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:44:23 GMT
There isn't too much to add since Cuz and Dave have pretty much wrapped it up but I still like standard (contact on) racing best. However I can be a bit long winded so I'll give it a go!! Non-contact racing does have its place and its time but not as a regular racing mode in our crew. I have to ask myself why I joined a clean racing crew if we are going to run non-contact most of the time (friendships developed aside). The whole point of the crew was to give us a race against like minded people in that racing clean and gentlemanly is more important than racing dirty to win. If I find myself racing against great racers in non-contact then I'd actually be better off racing randoms with non-contact...at least there I have a much much better chance of winning. I hardly ever win or even finish top 3 against RRR members but if the threat of contact is over then I'd might as well go somewhere where I can win more often (winning isn't that important but it IS fun). Don't get excited, I'm not going anywhere! lol Also with non-contact, it makes me lazy. I'm just not concerned about anything but the track and that is fine on certain courses. I have one I made that Cuz mentioned above that almost can't be run except on non-contact. I no longer care about the cars around me and then when we switch back to a standard race I end up having to be even more careful as now my mindset has to readjust to be careful to not wreck anyone. As one of the slower guys in the crew, I have to take advantage of other people's mistakes to gain positions usually. If someone has a wreck and I can avoid it then I get to gain a position or two that I'd never get if non-contact was on. Again, I know that winning isn't that important, but it IS fun to win or at least compete. Now the other side of the coin, I do like non-contact for the sole reason that I am one of the slower guys in the crew. I spend more time worrying about not holding up a fast guy that is behind me that I either end up wrecking or just pulling way over to allow the other guy room to move on past. I'm also constantly concerned about wrecking somebody else so again I'm not focused on racing but instead the other guy. When I don't have to worry about that I can just focus on my driving and not on me wrecking somebody it does have some nice merits. Bottom line for me though is I prefer standard (contact on) racing. That is what RRR is about!! If it wasn't for standard racing I doubt RRR would be in existence and I feel most likely that I would've never met so many great guys & girls as I would have not needed a clean racing crew. I'm very thankful for contact racing and the idiots in random races!!
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Post by coach_wargo on Jun 5, 2014 17:50:23 GMT
I hate time trials. The only time I truly rage is when I’m TTing and I make a mistake (basically I’m harder on myself than I am on others). Since ghost racing is basically a TT I really don’t enjoy it. Everyone is running the same line and it comes down to the person who can hold that line the best.
With contact racing the thrill is in making a pass offline or forcing the other guy to take a less than ideal line in order to defend. Driving hard into a corner and trying to out brake the guy in front of me is a rush. I also enjoy defending against a better driver. I know I’m not the best in the crew, but I do try to make it tough to pass me. I’ll take a different line to the turns when I’m trying to defend; usually a earlier entry and later exit trying to hold the inside line through each turn. In a contact race feel I have a literal fighting change, in a noncontact race I will see everyone pretty much run away from me.
I also agree that the starting grid system is totally flawed in playlists. If it’s not going to randomize the grid it should at least invert the grid from the previous race. My ideal would be to invert the grid based on the playlist standings.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:06:37 GMT
I also agree that the starting grid system is totally flawed in playlists. If it’s not going to randomize the grid it should at least invert the grid from the previous race. My ideal would be to invert the grid based on the playlist standings. The starting grid always changes on a playlist with rockstar/verified race ones. It doesnt work with created ones for some reason
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:33:50 GMT
I do like that "ghost" has been added to the options. Smart use of any of the various options (Weather, laps, GTA ,SS, even ketchup!) by the host can definitely add to the "fun" factor. (looking at you Don ) However, it cannot be a substitute for the "real thing" which, one hopes, is the reason we are all here in this particular crew. With "non contact" there is no point to this or any other fair racing crew unless you had one built around the idea of members that have sworn not to deliberately chop lamposts into the path of their ghostly opponents.
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Post by nittydon on Jun 6, 2014 11:47:26 GMT
Ghost racing for tight technical races and full contact for open races or any race involving a cross over section or designed for chaos !
I'm lost at who Dave has been racing with in the past .... "Don makes a fantastic turn" ... "Cuz is in second" ... you high Bro ?
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Post by Davexen on Jun 6, 2014 12:00:56 GMT
Ghost racing for tight technical races and full contact for open races or any race involving a cross over section or designed for chaos ! I'm lost at who Dave has been racing with in the past .... "Don makes a fantastic turn" ... "Cuz is in second" ... you high Bro ? Lol it's all hypothetical mate. And you shouldn't underestimate yourselves. 8) I'm afraid I did leave the impression that I am in favor of non-contact in 100% of the races. This is not true of course. Ghost obviously does have its flaws, but I think it can prevent much annoyance on many tracks. Thank you all for your very in-depth responses!
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Post by fnord on Jun 7, 2014 16:17:55 GMT
Great thread Dave!
I had started to fear we were going the way of non-contact for almost all races, and found my self thinking it’d be a real shame if a racing crew forgot how to race without non-contact. The responses here have stated great points for both modes of racing and I agree with Cuz that there is a pretty good balance of both modes at the moment.
I think what Cuz and Coach have said sums up my preference for contact racing. The back and forth between two drivers, trying to out brake each other, looking for slightly better lines to get the extra exit speed needed to overtake on the straights. Then the anticipation as you try not to make any mistakes, knowing the other guy will pull a similar move on you at the first chance. Its this back and forth throughout a race that I enjoy the most. It was a race like this with LisaWar on the Nurbergring that restored my fath in GTAO racing and motivated me to seek out a clean racing crew. We had stuck almost exclusively to missions and free roam until that point due to the usual problems of racing with randoms and all the boring highway races.
I have found that I do enjoy non-contact mode when it’s used on the right tracks. One of my favourite things about it is that it’s opened up the map for us to create fun races that would have not otherwise been possible. I’ve made several races now that have non-contact as the default mode. One in particular being a single track rally/dirt race in Grapeseed. The added sensation of speed on those thin dirt tracks is great fun. The race would have been totally unplayable if not for ghost.
One change I’d like to see is for us to be able to turn contact off or on after people have joined the lobby rather than before, as with slipstream and catchup. This would allow us to make a better judgment call as to which mode was needed depending on the number of players. Assuming the track being played is not specifically suited to one particular mode from the outset.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 11:18:37 GMT
I think it's very dependant on mood and purpose.
When I'm just doing races on a regular day to simply race, I prefer doing non-contact. It brings down some of the intensity but stay entertaining and fun, so it's good when the races are more of a grind to keep it simple.
However, when I'm doing races for events or I for some reason want to increase the intensity, I find Standard or GTA mode makes for a good laugh and general entertainment value. It definetively adds alot to the race to keep contact on, but that's not always a good thing, if you're not very focused on the particular race you're doing it's only going to be frustrating to keep contact on.
I also find that non-contact is great for testing car performance or for practicing a particular track. (If you still try to play it sort of like it was contact)
Both have their merits and are good options to use.
I try to default my created races as non-contact though, so if other people host my races with randoms, there's less of a chance that there will be one douchebag driving backwards ruining the experience for the entire lobby, as well as it keeps that dreaded slipstream and catchup off by default. (Too few hosts remember to turn it off if the default is Standard)
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Post by refuso on Jun 12, 2014 12:49:42 GMT
I had started to fear we were going the way of non-contact for almost all races Lol, I started to fear that we would only ever do standard races when no one was choosing non contact once we had the option for it I like non contact races because standard races are more luck based Standard luck: Your starting grid position, getting caught in first corner pile ups or not, someone crashes into you, you crash into someone so wait for them, people crashing in front of you blocking the road so you can't get by and have to wait, people just ahead of you crashing or spinning out so you don't have time to react and crash into them, people that are so laggy you don't actually know where they are on the road so don't want to risk going near them, fallen lampposts Non contact luck: If you get confused or not in the blob of ghost cars at the start of the race (added this one for certain people ), fallen lampposts
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 14:57:20 GMT
Non contact luck: If you get confused or not in the blob of ghost cars at the start of the race That's my excuse problem
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Post by fnord on Jun 12, 2014 15:41:20 GMT
lol at the blob. It is pretty comical, especially if we're all running the same car. Had a race last night or the night before where the top 4 managed to maintain blobbage for almost the whole 1st lap. Good laugh.
I find myself wondering what it would look like to a pedestrian seeing this thing morph its way by. Destroying poles, hitting trees, clown horns blaring.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 11:16:23 GMT
"blobbage" my word for today and foozff which I invented this morning ( the "z" is of course silent) a noise made by old people moving from any one position to another.
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Post by nittydon on Jun 13, 2014 12:01:29 GMT
Who is older than you Trak ??!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 12:06:54 GMT
Trak's got an autographed Bible
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Post by Cuz05 on Jul 26, 2014 10:16:59 GMT
-Fzzzt- *thread reanimated* Weeeellll, we sure have been doing a lot of non-contact racing. Now then, I really like it... I've been selecting a lot, especially on new builds where people aren't gonna know the track and I don't want to punish everyone when someone spins or whatever. Then you've got the purity of it, concentrating on the road, not getting thwammed by other drivers and having everything in your own hands. It's fairer if you're at the back of the grid... and so on... BUT IT'S MAKING US LAZY!!! It's easy, that's why. Look at it another way. I put it on with new builds to avoid hassles with potential chaos spots. I put it on so people don't have to worry about crashing into each other and will have a nice time. I put it on so I don't have to worry about my lines.... I'm not saying we need to stop doing it, like I say, I really like it. There's lots of times where I would shudder at putting contact on and not just on those tracks that are made for ghost. I am saying that I've had some completely awesome full contact races recently and it's reminded me of what we're missing. It's just so much more intense when you have to track someone for the majority of a race and actually work for an overtake. It's brilliant, quite frankly. 2/3/4 cars can make for the best race ever with contact on, jockeying and such. Working for an overtake, back and forth with a couple other drivers for 2 or 3 laps has been the most fun I've had in race for the last few weeks. This is what a gentlemanly racing crew is about imo, we vet new drivers for exactly this purpose and we trust our circle of racers precisely through racing in contact. If we're running ghost the whole time, the only thing that distinguishes our races from random lobbies is the fact that we're chatting about it (and the quality of tracks is higher)... So I joined the non-contact race lobbyists. Well now I retire. I'm going back to my initial policy of only using it in very full lobbies and single track races. I wanna get with what makes Red Rum a racing crew and see your true skills
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 11:18:25 GMT
I've only been here about a week. For US newbies.. well Random Racing was all we had. Non Contact was a Blessing. Coming onto this Crew .. racing clean is a bit of a New Idea.. not that I like Dirty racing. The races I've been on.. have been extremely narrow, with sharp turns .. completely guessing where that turn ends up. In short.. I don't care if its Contact.. just make the racing lanes large enough to suit most racers.
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Post by Cuz05 on Jul 26, 2014 12:13:45 GMT
The races I've been on.. have been extremely narrow, with sharp turns .. completely guessing where that turn ends up. In short.. I don't care if its Contact.. just make the racing lanes large enough to suit most racers. I don't understand what you're looking for. You'll find hardly anyone here who wants to race 4 lane roads with only gradual bends the whole time. If you have few opportunities to overtake then you have to wait and make the most of them, that's the challenge. Obviously if there's nowhere at all to overtake then that's bad but I can't remember racing a track like that in a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 13:36:19 GMT
-Fzzzt- *thread reanimated* Weeeellll, we sure have been doing a lot of non-contact racing. Now then, I really like it... I've been selecting a lot, especially on new builds where people aren't gonna know the track and I don't want to punish everyone when someone spins or whatever. Then you've got the purity of it, concentrating on the road, not getting thwammed by other drivers and having everything in your own hands. It's fairer if you're at the back of the grid... and so on... BUT IT'S MAKING US LAZY!!! It's easy, that's why. Look at it another way. I put it on with new builds to avoid hassles with potential chaos spots. I put it on so people don't have to worry about crashing into each other and will have a nice time. I put it on so I don't have to worry about my lines.... I'm not saying we need to stop doing it, like I say, I really like it. There's lots of times where I would shudder at putting contact on and not just on those tracks that are made for ghost. I am saying that I've had some completely awesome full contact races recently and it's reminded me of what we're missing. It's just so much more intense when you have to track someone for the majority of a race and actually work for an overtake. It's brilliant, quite frankly. 2/3/4 cars can make for the best race ever with contact on, jockeying and such. Working for an overtake, back and forth with a couple other drivers for 2 or 3 laps has been the most fun I've had in race for the last few weeks. This is what a gentlemanly racing crew is about imo, we vet new drivers for exactly this purpose and we trust our circle of racers precisely through racing in contact. If we're running ghost the whole time, the only thing that distinguishes our races from random lobbies is the fact that we're chatting about it (and the quality of tracks is higher)... So I joined the non-contact race lobbyists. Well now I retire. I'm going back to my initial policy of only using it in very full lobbies and single track races. I wanna get with what makes Red Rum a racing crew and see your true skills ^^^^ THIS...100% THIS ^^^^^
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 14:07:37 GMT
Cuz.. don't get me wrong.. I'm just a newb.. you peeps are legends. In short.. maybe we can identify 'Opportunities in Passing' 1. Its certainly not on a hair pin turn. 2. If its on a curve.. it certainly would have to be wide enough.. and a sweeping one at that. 3. Braking into a turn? .. you might gain the advantage and possibly gain up a position? 4. Straights.. probably one might ask the question.. Is the straight wide enough.. even long enough to over take someone? 5. Is there some kind of balance in the over-all race.. such as.. the number of laps. You might have opportunities.. but if the lap count is not high enough.. there is no chance of an over-take to place in top 3. No these are just random thoughts.. I'm hardly no expert.. but I do like to raise questions.. and hash it over a bit... I just love Racing..and talking about it. Now.. on a side note.. when Random racing was all there was.. speaking of Non Contact verses Contact. I once was in a race .. we did over and over..Down The Drain.. 7 laps.. Contact .. Non Custom... Muscle. You didn't want to bump ppl or get bumped. The ones involved in bumping.. well.. you didn't finish in the top 3. By the end of 4 laps.. you car would be destroyed.. it was an 'all together different' experience in racing. Just my opinion~
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Post by fnord on Jul 26, 2014 14:32:27 GMT
Those contact on muscle races last night were great fun I miss it too. Using ghost on big tracks that have plenty of space seems sad to me. Its cutting out a whole element of racing. I'm still mixing it up on PLs, using ghost only on thin tracks and asking what people want in the chat if its a thinish track that could be run either way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 15:02:41 GMT
I know one of those races last night I said to myself.."the hell with racing.. this is just a fun track! I just want to have fun" Racing my new Warrener.. Maiden race.. quite a fun car. I must admit.. being that 'just to be in the race' is good enough for me. I'll take the 'Contact' only.. and give reason to 'realism' in racing.. and that just goes along with Racing.. take your position.. and get the higher 'Finishes' in a multiply race / tourney. Thats fine.. in placements of over-all racing. I can handle it. To add to this.. being on a track.. for the first time.. someones creations.. well I could see.. there was effort in realism. The barriers at times were placed in excellent positions.. as a 'warning'. Tire positions... on one race .. well I felt they were not only warnings.. but more as a 'marker' for the next turn.. like in some Moto X bike race.. rather nice.
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Post by Cuz05 on Jul 26, 2014 17:51:17 GMT
Good post! I wouldn't say I'm a legend, lol, but I can certainly give my thoughts on some of your points and we have a good number of experts on these things that would be happy to help. 'Opportunities in Passing' 1. Its certainly not on a hair pin turn. I actually do see a fair few opportunities to over (under) take on hairpins. People run wide very often and if you're close behind you can nip thru the inside and force them to let off on the exit- without contact obviously! This depends a lot on how the hairpin is laid out, I leave a fair bit of room around the back of them for just this reason. There is risk to this but it's all about watching the car in front for errors and not taking the inside line so fast that you just cut them up.2. If its on a curve.. it certainly would have to be wide enough.. and a sweeping one at that. Definitely. Curves are a risky place to overtake but if it's wide and sweeping enough then it can be treated the same way as a straight.3. Braking into a turn? .. you might gain the advantage and possibly gain up a position? This is one where massive caution has to be shown. It's so easy to misjudge these or simply go into it too aggressively. It's better to only attempt it if the car in front has obviously misjudged the corner and allowed you a chance to take advantage. It's often worth hanging back a bit so you can get a faster exit speed.....4. Straights.. probably one might ask the question.. Is the straight wide enough.. even long enough to over take someone? 9 times out of 10 you won't have the power to overtake on a straight if you're just keeping pace with the car in front but this is where it gets interesting. You clearly have to take the corner before faster than the person you're chasing so it's about planning ahead. If you're too close to them you may not be able to get the extra speed you need thru it. Once you're on the straight you may have enough momentum to get alongside but not ahead, so you're aiming to put yourself in the right position to complete the overtake on the next corner. If not you might switch sides for the next corner and attempt to build a head of speed over your opponent by taking different racing lines. Whatever, planning your lines thru all the corners so you can get the advantage on the straight is the really cool part of contact racing for me.5. Is there some kind of balance in the over-all race.. such as.. the number of laps. You might have opportunities.. but if the lap count is not high enough.. there is no chance of an over-take to place in top 3. If the lap count is too high I've got no chance of beating some of these guys to a podium finish, lol.I'm not a pro at either controlling my car or thinking tactically about all this but I think these are ok as basics... Obviously there is a lot more that can be said about the various risks of overtaking maneuvers and how to plan your corners for clean passes.
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Post by LuapYllier on Jul 27, 2014 1:30:23 GMT
Cuz hit several of the points I am about to make right on the head. At the caliber of drivers that we have in this crew races can often boil down to which car people are driving and if it is known which car is the "best" for a class then most of the crew members in a race will be in the same car. Therefore you could be running pace with one or two drivers for entire laps and not gain or lose ground if each is maintaining a good line. The key to passing is to pay attention and be ready to pounce on the slightest mistakes made by those in front of you. I almost never get to pass on a straight because we almost never race with slipstream on the xbox side. The only times that passes ARE accomplished on a straight is when it was actually set up on the previous turn. Racing in GTA is all about exit speed from a turn and how fast you get back up to speed. The slightest advantage in speed exiting a turn can result in you pulling along side of someone and if you chose the side that will be the inside of the next turn it should get you the advantage to finish the pass. The one thing that I find is the most critical skill to learn when racing clean is to pay attention to the drivers around you and try to predict what they are about to do. For instance when racing super cars I often race a completely different line than I would with most of the other classes. I tend to enter a turn from the middle of the road brake and turn hard and accelerate out to the outside on the exit, where normally many drivers would be on the outside for entry and exit and hit the apex on the inside in the middle. What this often means is I will get to the corner first and be quite unexpectedly in the way of the out-in-out drivers. If the other driver was being more aware of the cars around them they would see the car on the inside and realize that the inside line is not open and could adjust his line to allow for the other lane in the apex. In other words two cars wide in an apex can work if both drivers are aware enough to know which lane they are in. If I hear someone beside me as I am entering a turn, whether I can see them or not I assume that they have a nose in on me and will adjust my turn to hit the apex a little more than a car width away from the optimal line. I find that the majority of the accidents I get involved in are caused by other drivers not making this concession and assuming that they own the apex. Now mind you in general most drivers will tell you that it is always the responsibility of the driver in the back to avoid a collision because they have a better view of the tactical situation. but when you are side by side...even if it was a last second dive by the rear driver...neither driver is in the rear. Anyway I think I am rambling now but my point is that passing is done in the turns. It is always done in the turns. This does not mean that it will always physically happen in a turn but the only way you will ever overtake someone on a straight is to do better than that someone in the turn before that straight. Oh and one other thing that Cuz mentioned that is spot on...never follow too close. If you are right on someone's ass it is much more highly likely that you will lose ground due to braking differences, accidental taps, or falling victim to any major mistakes by the guy in front of you than if you hang back a few car lengths and be prepared to make full use of a mistaken line, slight bump of an obstacle, or a misjudged brake. I don't know how many times I have been on Downtown Underground and raced down the front straight for all I was worth and had everyone pushing hard right down to the end of it but I let of the gas early in the far left lane which gets all the others to naturally move right to pass me. They are still gunning as hard as they can and I drop to last place. My slower entry speed means I can make the turn smoothly and tighter coming out in the middle rather than the far outside while all the others are going too fast and end up on the outside either hitting each other, the wall or missing the checkpoint around the bend. I dive underneath the entire field at full throttle going from last to first all in one turn and most of the time they will never see me again. This is against randoms of course...crew tends to have more sense then that .
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Post by SPEEDSTER0595 on Jul 27, 2014 18:41:47 GMT
With random players id prefer non-contact as they are unpredictable and the races often end frustrating. I find it satisfying when i beat randoms with contact on. Dirty randoms that PIT and ram others. Off topic, try to get a good start on randoms, with any luck they trip over themselves in the first turn and have a hard time catching up
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Post by nittydon on Jul 28, 2014 11:29:51 GMT
I'll stick to hosting non contact as I have a strange affair with the auto invite button, .... must resist, can't resist ......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 16:25:15 GMT
Is that purely because you can't get enough "approved racer" type people to join your races without also using auto-invite Don?. Do you use NC just to cater for the dickishness of auto-invited randoms?. Or do you actually prefer it?. Just curious.
As an aside. Best fun I have had in this game over the last few days was a contact half lap spent duelling with a decent but dirty driver for I know nor care what race or position. The satisfaction of out fumbling his many attempts to sideline me and his eventual abrupt self inflicted exit from proceedings was way more involving, intense and satisfying than anything NC has ever given me.
In the beginning. I did'nt like NC but came around to appreciating certain aspects of it and I still do.
Now though, I really don't like it. I find it over-used, impersonal, heartless, uninvolving and as insipid and pointless as alcohol free beer or caffeine free coffee. In the main, I would sooner go back to to the trials and tribs of driving with randoms, contact on, interaction on, than the lonely empty excercise that NC is. It is NOT racing and if it was all there was (NC) I would not be playing this game at all, I would not be here and neither would any of you. Me, because I like to race and NC is'nt racing it's TT, and you because there would be no need to be in a racing crew reading this forum.
I can understand using it as the "easy" choice if one does gets stressed out by bad players otherwise its just beer without alcohol which I definitely don't understand.
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Post by Davexen on Jul 28, 2014 22:53:47 GMT
I understand what you mean Trak. Though I do class NC as racing. It's true honest competition with as few outside influences as possible. I like pushing myself to the limit in order to try and catch Fno, Ref or Adam. Let's say I'm coming after Adam, but I start on the 8th place in the grid while he starts in first. I know and like the whole overtaking game, but it's just an annoyance in races like these. I won't be able to get anywhere near Adam because while he is speeding away unhindered I am having an overtake struggle with no. 7. If I succeed, it's onto 6. Then 5. 4, 3, 2. Adam is long gone. He wins a race I had no chance to put up a fight in because I'm spending too much time fighting to the front of the pack.
Like a sports race the crew did last week. A new race made by Cuz, about 8 of us. I start at the front of the pack and keep that position for a few secs. After these few secs I see the others having a major clusterfuck on the first corner that I got through clean. Right then, about 15 seconds into the first of three laps I already knew I was going to win the race. I had a big lead right from the bat and no one near me to be cautious around. Meanwhile the others are all slowing each other down in order to avoid hitting each other. Of course some do hit each other and have to wait. It's so ridiculous sometimes, just 15 seconds into a race the lot of them had 0% chance to win. It eliminates so much of the potential competition. I don't like winning that way and I don't like losing that way.
Of course this track might be a track especially suited for non-contact, I just hope NC isn't going to be this extremely rare occurance.
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