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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 6, 2014 3:59:46 GMT
I am having some issues with a couple of my new guys who seem completely unable to connect to my sessions, my hosted races or even my Xbox party. We have had them connect to another members session and then I join and we can both be together but we cant seem to do so directly. Anyone have any idea what this might be about and how it might be corrected?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 14:07:31 GMT
I had that problem with you the other day. I saw you online and tried to join your party and it said there was a problem with it. I still think you need to have your cable company change out your Cable modem. I think you have some packet loss going on.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 6, 2014 15:41:55 GMT
Hey luap
Sounds like it might be a local issue to ypu connection/router. Try runnin a traceroute and ping test to Google.com and post the results
If your gettin a big "on net" hop in the tracert then it would indicate an isp/line/router issue
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 6, 2014 16:04:51 GMT
Im on comcast and the xfinity speed test thing said my ping was 9 and download was 38 (suposed to be 50). Im not sure where else to go to test that stuff.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 6, 2014 16:22:55 GMT
are you on windoze or Mac?
If your on windows go to start > run . type "cmd" to open a command prompt
then type
tracert google.com
wait for it to finish (about 20 or so hops) the trace route and C&P the results here.
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 6, 2014 17:27:32 GMT
Windows...and will do as soon as i get home. About 5 hours from now.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 6, 2014 19:53:56 GMT
Yea no worries dude. If im not around to have a look by then what your lookin for is any hops w large time eg 60ms+ most should complete within 30ms
If you do see a big hop then take the ip address and do a Google search for "ipwhois" then paste the ip address into an ipwhois search (any will do). If the ip is owned by Comcast its your ISP, give them a vall. If its the very first hop (likely ip will be 192.168.1.1 or similar, basically your routers ip) then it points towards it bein your equipment, again cintact isp for replacement.
If theres no bad hops and you get low ping then it ppints away from it bein your line/equipment and indicates a poss r* side issue... If we knew their server ips we could run traces to those, but given the dns hacks I imagine thier not too public about their IP addresses atm
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 6, 2014 23:30:01 GMT
Does everyone need to be off the net for this to be accurate?
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 6, 2014 23:33:50 GMT
OK I ran this while spectating a race in game, a tablet is using youtube and another PC is running second life. This is pretty typical for around here.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601] Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Mike>tracert google.com
Tracing route to google.com [74.125.196.113] over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms CISCO80375 [192.168.1.1] 2 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.0.0.1 3 146 ms 62 ms 59 ms 66.177.72.1 4 107 ms 13 ms 10 ms te-8-4-ur01.ftcaroline.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.85.94.81] 5 58 ms 54 ms 50 ms te-0-4-0-10-ar02.westside.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.85.225.69] 6 80 ms 72 ms 50 ms pos-3-14-0-0-cr01.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.91.81] 7 * * * Request timed out. 8 92 ms 67 ms 31 ms 72.14.233.56 9 223 ms 160 ms 24 ms 66.249.94.24 10 27 ms 108 ms 58 ms 209.85.248.31 11 * * * Request timed out. 12 30 ms 116 ms 27 ms yk-in-f113.1e100.net [74.125.196.113]
Trace complete.
I'm guessing something is wrong here.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 6, 2014 23:49:54 GMT
Looks like an isp issue to me bud
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 0:06:55 GMT
So what do I call them and say exactly...
All I can come up with is shiz r slow...fix it.
____________________________________________________
Ran this one with no one online but this internet window.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601] Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\>tracert google.com
Tracing route to google.com [173.194.37.40] over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms CISCO80375 [192.168.1.1] 2 2 ms 2 ms 1 ms 10.0.0.1 3 52 ms 63 ms 29 ms 66.177.72.1 4 12 ms 47 ms 12 ms te-8-4-ur01.ftcaroline.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.85.94.81] 5 54 ms 14 ms 48 ms 68.86.168.189 6 21 ms 64 ms 78 ms pos-0-4-0-0-cr01.miami.fl.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.95.189] 7 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms be-11-pe02.nota.fl.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.82.117] 8 120 ms 69 ms 109 ms 23-30-206-118-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [23.30.206.118] 9 45 ms 45 ms 19 ms 209.85.253.74 10 40 ms 94 ms 31 ms 209.85.252.96 11 30 ms 29 ms 40 ms 66.249.94.7 12 31 ms 52 ms 61 ms 64.233.175.92 13 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms atl14s07-in-f8.1e100.net [173.194.37.40]
Trace complete.
Thoughts? I have no idea what I am looking at.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 8:15:28 GMT
Hmm seems to be slowing down (the bigger hops and the '***request timed out" messages), but it doesnt seem to be happening as much when youve less running
The ip addresses (servers/ that have "Comcast" and/or "Comcast busiNess" are owned/serviced by your isp.. As the big hops are occuring between those servers id call your ISP and tell them your gettin slow speeds and packet loss, they should be able to look into it for you. The last few hops (the non Comcast ones) are where the traffic passes off your isps network and "into the wild" before resolving at the destination (in this case google)
It could be a line/router issue but points a little more towards network side of things, comcast should be able to run some tests for you to check line attentuation, SNR (Signal to Noise ratio) and try to identify the cause.
A ping test (type ping Google.com into your cmd console) should give an indication of the % packet loss, id recommend repeatin both test coditions (e normal setup vs minimal setup with just 1 window open) to try and see if theres significant differences
Hope it helped buddy
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 8:18:33 GMT
I also noticed the fiest hop is to 192.168.1.1 (your router) bein that its 1ms id say your routers fine... If you saw a large first hop the packets are gettin delayed on your router, as this is really low seems to be ok (not a guarentee but seems to be) and the big hops looks to be your isps servers so thats where the packets are gettin lost causing data transmission issues (like sending 100 letter but only 90 arrive, theres a chunk of the story missing)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 11:39:10 GMT
X
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 12:27:47 GMT
I hear what your saying ashleyman but i have been able to connect with grndzero regularly and then he suddenly had an issue the other day. We have steadily had breakup and loss in voice comms though.
What im hearing is that im screwed...because it isnt likely comcast is gonna go fix anything in thier connections between major hubs in thier networks which seems like where i am having issues.
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 12:34:23 GMT
I just noticed it took like a completely different path the second time...so it isnt even an accurate comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 12:35:27 GMT
I hear what your saying ashleyman but i have been able to connect with grndzero regularly and then he suddenly had an issue the other day. We have steadily had breakup and loss in voice comms though. What im hearing is that im screwed...because it isnt likely comcast is gonna go fix anything in thier connections between major hubs in thier networks which seems like where i am having issues. That's why I think it might be an ISP issue with his and your IP addresses not being able to directly 'talk' to each other, hence why it works through other people... The rest of the thread was just troubleshooting ideas I had to see if you'd tried any with what results. I hope you do get it sorted out though.
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Post by Cuz05 on Jan 7, 2014 12:42:13 GMT
I've got no broadband at all atm, got an engineer coming Saturday because it seems to be a problem with our phone line. Anyway, to keep it topical, both Bobchilli and Gills told me they couldn't connect to the Bifta session on Sunday. They gave up after repeated fails. Bob said that he joined Tolly a couple of times but it told him Tolly left straight after. Obvious connection drop out. Don't know if this is related to Luaps issues at all but it did strike me as a bit of a coincidence. Even if it is on different consoles....
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 12:42:16 GMT
I havent tried like unfriending and refriending anyone. I did however unplug all components of my local network for 4 days over New Years.
I will probably call them tonight as I am paying for 50mb/s and their own speed test says Im getting 38 so at least that gives me something to point at. I dont feel comfortable saying I am having an issue with packet loss on a trace that seems to take a completely random path each time I use it...there would be no place for them to go look.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 12:51:35 GMT
I seriously doubt you need to go unfriending anyone. That has nothing to do with your connection issues. That is a database thing. The reason it is taking different routes at different times is how the internet stays alive. Comcast's DNS servers are just trying to find the fastest route for you. They have to keep multiple paths or complete breakdowns would crash networks all over the place. I just find it funny that both you and I have had constant comms issues with each other since we started talking and I never have these issues with other people. It has to be a bad connection specific to Time Warner here and Comcast there. What that is I am unsure of. Next time I am online, we can run some timing tests between our two networks while we are talking over xbox live. Sorry I haven't been online that last two days, been busy doing some things with the wife.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 14:22:46 GMT
I havent tried like unfriending and refriending anyone. I did however unplug all components of my local network for 4 days over New Years. I will probably call them tonight as I am paying for 50mb/s and their own speed test says Im getting 38 so at least that gives me something to point at. I dont feel comfortable saying I am having an issue with packet loss on a trace that seems to take a completely random path each time I use it...there would be no place for them to go look. as grnd correctly said ( i do this for a living lol) the different route is normal, because theres multiple ways to get to the end destination... the second route likely worked fine because its hoping between different servers, that are working (more ammo that its ISP based),,, the first route looks like its finding the problematic server, causing the loss of packets and dropped hops. Ash has also confirmed its possible that its an ISP issue, with some server delays, possibly specific to certain traffic (i.e it might work better with people who are using comcast a swell, whereas grnd if "off-net" being that he uses Time Warner) ... I agree its not likely to be a local issue to you luap (i.e either your router or your line... although that's not guaranteed as an SNR spike caused by a line fault can also cause lossed packets, as the signal is disrupted by noise on the line from something like electrical interference...meaning data is lost along the way) although Ash is right, your packets got their in the end, if you getting 75% packet loss, only 25% of your data is reaching the end server (like my car often ends up in impromptu races to the lake)... so although it arrives its not performing normally.... Packet loss could explain breakups in your chat (either party or lobby) with GrndZero as well as the issues with people joining sessions Id definately send the traceroute results to comcast and ask them to take a look into it,, they can identify the serve from the IP address and can easily switch it off and reroute while its fixed...
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 14:29:49 GMT
You think i should run several more traces and send them a grouping of info? Most of my contact with them is usually by phone...need to find a contact for sending this stuff.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
we usually ask for 3 sets of traceroutes, usually morning afternoon evening to give an "overall" view of whats going on... it can also help to run 1 in safe-mode as well, although in you're case i dont think that will matter as its all appears to be on comcast servers, so your pc being in safe-mode wont affect that if you usually call them id give them a ring and ask for a specific email address to forward them to
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Post by LuapYllier on Jan 7, 2014 14:56:33 GMT
As luck would have it, i cant connect to the phone operators either...i get all the way through the menus and it says please hold for representative...then beeps and drops the call...4 tries. Guess im just waiting till later.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 15:23:01 GMT
I would have to disagree and say that although unfriending someone may not be necessary, because it 'isn't a database issue' we don't actually know if it's a database issue just yet. Everything is worth a try, and i'm not suggesting unfriend, I'm suggesting REfriend. You guys are still friends, we are just trying to connect you. - I am one of those that will usually exhaust all possibilities and options before calling my ISP, just because I don't like it when they ask me, have you done A,B & C? And I can reply yes I've also D, E, F, G, H & I and nothing works. I've also tried 1, 2, 3 and 4 and I have concluded this is your exchange please go and look at it. 90% of the time I am correct and get passed to 3rd line support. I would also recommend looking at more of R* approach if this is happening over both consoles, in different countries. I know I can never join T0lly's sessions unless he sends me at least 2 invites because the 1st always times out, or I have to get someone else from inside to invite me. That's just how it is. I don't know why. and if Cuz is having the same thing, maybe it's more Rockstar than your connection. - Although Cuz I reckon your exchange is probably just flooded with all the weather! I wonder if you guys are comfortable if you gave each other your IP addresses and did a trace route directly to each other? (can it work like that for home addresses, mine can, but I have a different connection to most) Also, I was under the impression that rockstar hosted games and not users, so surely if they couldn't directly connect it would be rockstar and not a specify ISP? - I'm just trying to understand here so please go lightly!
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 15:35:10 GMT
You do make valid points Ash, but one thin we do know for certain. One of comcasts servers is losing packets (note luaps traceroute is perfect on his local network for the 1st hop and the last 3 to google are spot on too)
But your right about the R* side too, their server setup is via third parties so there will be quite alot of traffic switching servers and this can be the cause of most server drops we see on ps3 (happens to me to, no specific paterns though)
My focus on luaps issue is that he feels its more than the usual amount which we all see from time to time, id be doubtful its all r* more a combination of connection and game server
Plus as difficult as it may be to speak to isps, its probably harder to speak to r* lol
As for cuz your probably right, OR have got delays on engineering at the moment and still have an open MBORC (matters beyond reasonable control) case open in many areas due To recent bad weather here in the uk
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 15:39:50 GMT
You do make valid points Ash, but one thin we do know for certain. One of comcasts servers is losing packets (note luaps traceroute is perfect on his local network for the 1st hop and the last 3 to google are spot on too) But your right about the R* side too, their server setup is via third parties so there will be quite alot of traffic switching servers and this can be the cause of most server drops we see on ps3 (happens to me to, no specific paterns though) My focus on luaps issue is that he feels its more than the usual amount which we all see from time to time, id be doubtful its all r* more a combination of connection and game server Plus as difficult as it may be to speak to isps, its probably harder to speak to r* lol As for cuz your probably right, OR have got delays on engineering at the moment and still have an open MBORC (matters beyond reasonable control) case open in many areas due To recent bad weather here in the uk Loss of packets wouldn't stop 2 people from connecting entirely though, not unless it was 100% packet loss, 75% packet success should be enough to hold a conversation over the internet. - It shouldn't be the case but it will work! What I don't understand and can't seem to get my head round is why I go through 5 Virgin servers in the same building just to get to Google!
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Post by surlyoldmanmn on Jan 7, 2014 16:13:53 GMT
Loss of packets wouldn't stop 2 people from connecting entirely though, not unless it was 100% packet loss, 75% packet success should be enough to hold a conversation over the internet. - It shouldn't be the case but it will work! It's not just a matter of connecting entirely. It's a matter of getting all of the information you need within a given threshold before deciding it's not going to happen and take remedial action. Packet loss is like missing some of your mail and needing to have it resent. Depends a lot on what didn't make it and how long it takes to get the replacement. I can absolutely see a developer putting tight thresholds on that process.
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 16:23:00 GMT
only 100% loss would cause a 100% lack of connection, but the packet loss will be contributing to the break up in mic conversation between luap and grnd, like writing a letter then tearing the paper up and mailing them in 100 different envelopes... if only 75 arrive your missing some of the content. I do genuinely believe in luaps case its a combination of R* servers (in the same way we get on PSĀ£) but also an ISP related issue. with the hops on your traceroute ash the IP's will all be registered at the same address (probably Virgin HQ) but the actual nodes and servers are in different locations, so what your seeing is the route from your house to the exchange, exchange to the network (being 21CN) and then from the network to the "off-net" servers at google.. w virgin i think the first "virgin" hop will be the street cabinet node, then the exchange, then the main switch looking something like this although in your case from the Premesis to the splitter node is a coax cable, not a fibre one
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Post by Mo-seph on Jan 7, 2014 16:27:42 GMT
Loss of packets wouldn't stop 2 people from connecting entirely though, not unless it was 100% packet loss, 75% packet success should be enough to hold a conversation over the internet. - It shouldn't be the case but it will work! It's not just a matter of connecting entirely. It's a matter of getting all of the information you need within a given threshold before deciding it's not going to happen and take remedial action. Packet loss is like missing some of your mail and needing to have it resent. Depends a lot on what didn't make it and how long it takes to get the replacement. I can absolutely see a developer putting tight thresholds on that process. true true, strange we used pretty much the same analogy lol id expect that R*'s servers do have an threshold for connection, so if there's packets delayed/lost it doesn't create a connection to reduce the impact of laggy connections being formed (which are lagging due to missing data from lost packets, causing higher ping and latency) be interesting to get hold of the game servers IP and running some traces to it... i reckon we would all see some loss on the R* side as they dont seem to use dedicated servers, but rather third party ones @luapyllier - to get back on point though, if you do manage to get through to your ISP check with them if you have interleaving active on your line... if so try getting them to switch it off to reduce ping and latecy
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