Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 14:58:34 GMT
For me, i have a new rule when it comes to making tracks. And i hope the Fucharo and Luap would maybe take my advice here because crew members end up racing alot of your tracks. That rule being using props to block the fastest lines or 'fake' short cuts. Im not asking for an over all ugly barrier placement like what was done to the track "Hit the Apex". All those red line barriers are eye sores and are too obvious. I really don`t enjoy driving around eye sores. But his concept behind what he did is justified, because that track is side walk surfing city. But he did not have to ruin it with so many barriers. For me personally, all this side walk racing has been turning me off from racing in general. I notice alot user created races where props are used in sections where its not really needed (example, middle of the road just to make people bobble aroound) and then two seconds later nothing is stopping anyone from driving down the fastesr possible line which is on the side walk. And im just wondering why is stuff on the road while everyone`s on the side walk?...lol But after seeing the side walk surfing become even more popular after the last couple of months. It just started to become really annoying so i started to add things to my tracks that punish players for not staying on the road. But most of my props blocks are not obvious at all unless i really want people to see them. Like a bench here or a sign there hiding in the shadows which will ruin anyone trying to take a faster line or short cut that should not exist. In general side walk and curbs should not give players any advantage. Hell, in real life your car would be wrecked. And to make it clear i don't mind a little side walk driving when its a last ditch effort to avoid wild crash. But when people are taking it because its the 'fastest line', thats when i have an issue with it. A week ago... I made a track called Deja Voodoo. Last night i ended up racing it with randoms.. Some where in another racing crew and a few of them joined. After the 4th turn, three of them took the sidewalk line that I blocked. They went off the road, right onto a side walk and into a park bench i had posted up sneakily behind a light post. I then heard "WTF"?.... They all crashed into it and i got a good laugh. A few seconds later i heard `WTF` again. They must of hit another bench..... Anyways after it was done they all finished at the bottom while a few of the lesser experienced racers who actually stayed on the road blew them away. Then they all gave it a thumbs down ...lol.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 15:12:11 GMT
People arent taking sidewalks because its the fastest line - those sidewalks actually gives accelleration for some reason,and so does bumps on the floor. Yeah sometimes it might be the faster line to get it but its street racing after all,we are doing races inside a city.
I like the way it is in my opinion but I dont mind running few races like master stroke v2.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 15:28:55 GMT
People arent taking sidewalks because its the fastest line - those sidewalks actually gives accelleration for some reason,and so does bumps on the floor. Yeah sometimes it might be the faster line to get it but its street racing after all,we are doing races inside a city. I like the way it is in my opinion but I dont mind running few races like master stroke v2. Ya i know it gives a speed boost, but sometimes its the fastest line too. I mean, i don't care if people drive on the side walks but not when they do it on purpose just so they can gut through a turn faster. Example being Vine Wood Tours. Going down that right side walk and turning left is the fastest way of taking that. One park bench near the start of that turn and people won't be taking that side walk anymore. For me, it looks dumb when everyone is going down that side walk... I mean, side walks are meant for hookers and drunk drivers not for street racers. Even in Luaps Race Muscle memory. From the helipad till around the gas station you can use the side walks to to squeeze out of that very curvry section without barely turning. In my Deja Voodoo race you simply can't do that. You are forced to ride the curve of the road and theres no way to avoid that curve no matter how much anyone tries. Because if they do they end up benched. The benches are not touching the road and i still give a bit of a give to touch the side walk. I mean, im not talking about putting big barriers everywhere. Just a small block here and there to remind people that the road is where the racing should be taking place.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 16:56:19 GMT
You know what my goals are when creating street circuit tracks Voodu, as I've mentioned them plenty of times. I'll always be aiming to succeed in that when creating street circuits, if I'm looking to create something else I'll create something else. There is no one right or wrong way to create a race, as "race" is a very wide category, which includes pretty much anything where you're trying to get from A to B to C etc in the fastest possible time. So within that category pretty much anything is valid.
However, as I prefer racing street circuits myself I do try to aim to make them as good as possible within that category, which is the same category you are referring to here. But I can do nothing to change the crude tools I have to work with, and I wont do everything in my power to sidewalk proof every sidewalk in a track, as even then it wont be 100% successful unless we get a new toolbox to work with, the creator simply isn't designed in a way that allows us to completely recreate that genre as it is in real life, which means we will always have to live with compromise.
My aim is always to keep the fastest lines on the road. However, riding the curb is permitted even in Formula 1 so long as all four wheels don't cross over it. I also aim to penalise people as much as possible for cutting to the degree where they hit debris such as lightpoles and signs. I wont do that by clipping in props on every lightpole though, as I think that causes just as much havoc in contact racing. A car crashing on the inside will then often end up blocking the road for all cars behind and you get the same pileups. Instead I try to do this by having the checkpoints where you can hit them going on the road, and cutting slightly on the curb, but not if you get too close to the lightpoles.
I also aim to make my circuit aesthetically pleasing and technically challenging, and not just a bunch of Long Haul tracks which is why I use my props for that purpose instead. I wont be putting up a bunch of shit on the sidewalks for people to crash in, as my goal isn't to wreck their cars AND penalise them, but just give them a time penalty by making them miss the checkpoint.
Now, this is how I do it, and if you're joining my races I will assume you are ok with that. And as Ensyyy say, the curb riding people do are for the speedboosts and will likely happen regardless, the fastest line is still often on the road on most tracks as it's harder to hit a late apex through the sidewalk gaps, or even know where your apex is...
On Hit the Apex, he's not putting up the barriers on the side to stop people from riding there but to mark different points of the turn in the line he believe is the fastest. So hopefully that clears up a little bit too, the mark acceleration points, apexes and turn-in-points.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 17:38:39 GMT
No No No No No lol
Props don't render most of the time until after you've hit it. So people who play your track taking their usual lines will usually be hitting nothing which would annoy me as well
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 20:01:41 GMT
No No No No No lol Props don't render most of the time until after you've hit it. So people who play your track taking their usual lines will usually be hitting nothing which would annoy me as well People should not be driving on side walks tho. So basically, i don't give a shit about their lines that involve driving down side walks. They should be sticking to the roads. Sticking to the roads solves any problems. Its not like im dropping props in the middle of the road that people don't see till its to late. You have to go out of your way to drive down the side walk on purpose to hit these blocking props. Besides... my prop placements doesn't have render issues. I've tested them many times. Some are hidden tho, but like i said. Stick to the road.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 20:03:09 GMT
3 hours ago fachuro said:
I also aim to make my circuit aesthetically pleasing and technically challenging, and not just a bunch of Long Haul tracks which is why I use my props for that purpose instead. I wont be putting up a bunch of shit on the sidewalks for people to crash in, as my goal isn't to wreck their cars AND penalise them, but just give them a time penalty by making them miss the checkpoint.
On Hit the Apex, he's not putting up the barriers on the side to stop people from riding there but to mark different points of the turn in the line he believe is the fastest. So hopefully that clears up a little bit too, the mark acceleration points, apexes and turn-in-points.
But.. you do put a bunch of shit all over the road so im not sure why it matters about some shit on a side walk. .lol. Nothings wrong with that, but still. In my opinion thats kind of backwards. When i have to go out of my way to avoid shit on the road and then two seconds later drive down the side walk something does not seem right to me. Besides im not penalizing anyone for staying on the road. So what happens on side walks should not matter.
Also on hit the apex.. I played that track a long time ago and there was never any barriers like that. I remember everyone driving down the side walk and now it has 3 barriers blocking that. No doubt he just got tired of seeing that. Could be wrong tho. But i don't think people need to over do it with so many props like that. Now hit the apex with all those red line barriers looks kind of cheesey.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 22:09:36 GMT
Dislike pavement surfing myself but see valid points from all postees....(is that a thing?.......spellchecker says not.....%*!* the spellchecker). The late rendering props thing is more likely to manifest itself in company than solo I think Voodoo and whilst I am not a fan of surfing I would'nt wish to aggravate (most) players unnecessarily. Careful placement of c.p's and well placed props, as Fachuro notes, can hopefully dissuade some of the more obvious pavement/road/pavement abuses but will add an extra element of finesse to be considered by creators if a less surfer-friendly race is an aim. As previously stated, impossible to defeat 100% but there has to be some way to discourage the 14 members of the **** crew that were in front of me on the grid, instantly splitting in half at the start of a certain R* race, like a crack F16 aerobatics team, then bee-lining at warp speed directly pavement-wards rather than the perfectly decent, albeit lonely, mile long, 4 lane straight road I am now actually the only competitor apparently dumb enough to be traveling on and that for as long and often a lap as they possibly can........ Does'nt there?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 23:49:58 GMT
3 hours ago fachuro said: I also aim to make my circuit aesthetically pleasing and technically challenging, and not just a bunch of Long Haul tracks which is why I use my props for that purpose instead. I wont be putting up a bunch of shit on the sidewalks for people to crash in, as my goal isn't to wreck their cars AND penalise them, but just give them a time penalty by making them miss the checkpoint. On Hit the Apex, he's not putting up the barriers on the side to stop people from riding there but to mark different points of the turn in the line he believe is the fastest. So hopefully that clears up a little bit too, the mark acceleration points, apexes and turn-in-points. But.. you do put a bunch of shit all over the road so im not sure why it matters about some shit on a side walk. .lol. Nothings wrong with that, but still. In my opinion thats kind of backwards. When i have to go out of my way to avoid shit on the road and then two seconds later drive down the side walk something does not seem right to me. Besides im not penalizing anyone for staying on the road. So what happens on side walks should not matter. Also on hit the apex.. I played that track a long time ago and there was never any barriers like that. I remember everyone driving down the side walk and now it has 3 barriers blocking that. No doubt he just got tired of seeing that. Could be wrong tho. But i don't think people need to over do it with so many props like that. Now hit the apex with all those red line barriers looks kind of cheesey. Hit the Apex is originally a PS3 track that was recreated for Xbox 360 by a different person. You didn't play the original, the original on PS3 that was verified have those barriers. I'm not putting shit all over the road, and if that's how you see it I don't see much of a point continuing this discussion. I make my tracks the way those tracks are intended to be, you are free to make your tracks the way you want those to be without me pissing all over them. I try to avoid putting anything square straight in your face that will bring you to a dead stop, but if my track isn't heading down a certain lane I'll put props to guide you out of that lane. I'm sorry, but it feels kind of silly when your argument is pretty much "I don't like this turn, why is the track turning here, I want to go straight!". If you follow the direction of the checkpoints, and go between the checkpoints I can assure you there will be no props to obstruct your path, and I put quite a lot of time down into making sure of it. This makes it kind of upsetting that you are telling me I need to change my tracks according to your liking because you don't like props. If you go straight into a barrier, where the path isn't taking you, I'm not letting you put the blame for that on neither me nor the props.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 0:21:54 GMT
I still have Hit The Apex bookmarked from close to when Zig first made it and it was 70% on pavement just to be on the line for the way the track flowed.
The red and white barriers were only really to stop corner cutting, but you could go behind most of them.
Edit: Just realised why i liked that track lol Thought it was fast as hell lol Fucking pavement
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 5:25:05 GMT
3 hours ago fachuro said: I also aim to make my circuit aesthetically pleasing and technically challenging, and not just a bunch of Long Haul tracks which is why I use my props for that purpose instead. I wont be putting up a bunch of shit on the sidewalks for people to crash in, as my goal isn't to wreck their cars AND penalise them, but just give them a time penalty by making them miss the checkpoint. On Hit the Apex, he's not putting up the barriers on the side to stop people from riding there but to mark different points of the turn in the line he believe is the fastest. So hopefully that clears up a little bit too, the mark acceleration points, apexes and turn-in-points. But.. you do put a bunch of shit all over the road so im not sure why it matters about some shit on a side walk. .lol. Nothings wrong with that, but still. In my opinion thats kind of backwards. When i have to go out of my way to avoid shit on the road and then two seconds later drive down the side walk something does not seem right to me. Besides im not penalizing anyone for staying on the road. So what happens on side walks should not matter. Also on hit the apex.. I played that track a long time ago and there was never any barriers like that. I remember everyone driving down the side walk and now it has 3 barriers blocking that. No doubt he just got tired of seeing that. Could be wrong tho. But i don't think people need to over do it with so many props like that. Now hit the apex with all those red line barriers looks kind of cheesey. Hit the Apex is originally a PS3 track that was recreated for Xbox 360 by a different person. You didn't play the original, the original on PS3 that was verified have those barriers. I'm not putting shit all over the road, and if that's how you see it I don't see much of a point continuing this discussion. I make my tracks the way those tracks are intended to be, you are free to make your tracks the way you want those to be without me pissing all over them. I try to avoid putting anything square straight in your face that will bring you to a dead stop, but if my track isn't heading down a certain lane I'll put props to guide you out of that lane. I'm sorry, but it feels kind of silly when your argument is pretty much "I don't like this turn, why is the track turning here, I want to go straight!". If you follow the direction of the checkpoints, and go between the checkpoints I can assure you there will be no props to obstruct your path, and I put quite a lot of time down into making sure of it. This makes it kind of upsetting that you are telling me I need to change my tracks according to your liking because you don't like props. If you go straight into a barrier, where the path isn't taking you, I'm not letting you put the blame for that on neither me nor the props. ...So you're not putting shit all over the road? Im not seeing magic bouy's bouncing around while people surf on the sidewalks? . (thats a joke by the way, so eaaaasy now) Thing is this. And seriously, don't be taking this personally. But.. you like to make tracks that use objects to control how people drive on the road. Nothings wrong with that. I like to use objects to keep people on the road and control any real short cuts. Nothings wrong with that.... Eveyones got different tastes. But, im taking about driving down side walks not about track preferences. When i see racers making a mad friggin' dash for the side walk, im gonna plop a lil' something small there just to messy up their day. I really don't see it as a bigger issue then that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 8:42:58 GMT
Hit the Apex is originally a PS3 track that was recreated for Xbox 360 by a different person. You didn't play the original, the original on PS3 that was verified have those barriers. I'm not putting shit all over the road, and if that's how you see it I don't see much of a point continuing this discussion. I make my tracks the way those tracks are intended to be, you are free to make your tracks the way you want those to be without me pissing all over them. I try to avoid putting anything square straight in your face that will bring you to a dead stop, but if my track isn't heading down a certain lane I'll put props to guide you out of that lane. I'm sorry, but it feels kind of silly when your argument is pretty much "I don't like this turn, why is the track turning here, I want to go straight!". If you follow the direction of the checkpoints, and go between the checkpoints I can assure you there will be no props to obstruct your path, and I put quite a lot of time down into making sure of it. This makes it kind of upsetting that you are telling me I need to change my tracks according to your liking because you don't like props. If you go straight into a barrier, where the path isn't taking you, I'm not letting you put the blame for that on neither me nor the props. ...So you're not putting shit all over the road? Im not seeing magic bouy's bouncing around while people surf on the sidewalks? . (thats a joke by the way, so eaaaasy now) Thing is this. And seriously, don't be taking this personally. But.. you like to make tracks that use objects to control how people drive on the road. Nothings wrong with that. I like to use objects to keep people on the road and control any real short cuts. Nothings wrong with that.... Eveyones got different tastes. But, im taking about driving down side walks not about track preferences. When i see racers making a mad friggin' dash for the side walk, im gonna plop a lil' something small there just to messy up their day. I really don't see it as a bigger issue then that. I never said you couldn't do that either, but you did call me out personally so I responded personally. I put some buoys on the sidewalks of Grande Del Perro to mark the corners, unfortunately R* physics make them a bit bouncy but they're also a part of the theme of the track. That's not exactly what you said though, you're saying I put shit all over the road. I use props that block you from cutting over medians and sidewalks, now this is pretty much the same thing you asked for isn't it? If you recall me and Luap had some really heated debates about how he disliked me cutting out the ability to drive on the sidewalks in every single corner. (Ironically huh?) And I recall you complaining about some checkpoints on one of my tracks because you couldn't cut it close enough over the sidewalk. People STILL find ways to go on the sidewalks on some of the tracks, and that's a compromise I have to live with. But yeah, I'm a bit tired of your claims that I "put shit all over the road". When that not infact what I do. I completely agree with the rest of your post though, you make your tracks and I make my tracks. From the sound of it though I would recommend you make sure your sidewalk props are visible for people, or pull the checkpoints further out so they wouldn't be able to hit it where the prop is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 12:59:55 GMT
...So you're not putting shit all over the road? Im not seeing magic bouy's bouncing around while people surf on the sidewalks? . (thats a joke by the way, so eaaaasy now) Thing is this. And seriously, don't be taking this personally. But.. you like to make tracks that use objects to control how people drive on the road. Nothings wrong with that. I like to use objects to keep people on the road and control any real short cuts. Nothings wrong with that.... Eveyones got different tastes. But, im taking about driving down side walks not about track preferences. When i see racers making a mad friggin' dash for the side walk, im gonna plop a lil' something small there just to messy up their day. I really don't see it as a bigger issue then that. . I'm a bit tired of your claims that I "put shit all over the road". When that not infact what I do. I completely agree with the rest of your post though, you make your tracks and I make my tracks. From the sound of it though I would recommend you make sure your sidewalk props are visible for people, or pull the checkpoints further out so they wouldn't be able to hit it where the prop is. Dude... i think your mistaking how the word 'shit' is being used here. I put shit everywhere.... like hot sauce. When you used the term first to say you won't put shit on the side walk i just assumed you where talking about shit in general. Shit over here... shit over there. It the same shit but different story. lol. Besides i really don't like making it too visible unless is really necessary or important. I prefer to blend it in with the back ground and make it seem natural. Im not sure why you think i should have to make it visible. Its the side walk after all. I mean when i make tracks i do so in a certain order. First i test the road for the feel, to make sure it actually flows right. Then i place the check points.. Then i fill in the problem areas on side walks and short cuts. Then i add the finishing touches. You can check my races out if you want. Its not like i go over board with props on the side walk. I just test drive my races talking every shot cut i can and then fill in the holes as naturally as possible
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 14:13:08 GMT
. I'm a bit tired of your claims that I "put shit all over the road". When that not infact what I do. I completely agree with the rest of your post though, you make your tracks and I make my tracks. From the sound of it though I would recommend you make sure your sidewalk props are visible for people, or pull the checkpoints further out so they wouldn't be able to hit it where the prop is. Dude... i think your mistaking how the word 'shit' is being used here. I put shit everywhere.... like hot sauce. When you used the term first to say you won't put shit on the side walk i just assumed you where talking about shit in general. Shit over here... shit over there. It the same shit but different story. lol. Besides i really don't like making it too visible unless is really necessary or important. I prefer to blend it in with the back ground and make it seem natural. Im not sure why you think i should have to make it visible. Its the side walk after all. I mean when i make tracks i do so in a certain order. First i test the road for the feel, to make sure it actually flows right. Then i place the check points.. Then i fill in the problem areas on side walks and short cuts. Then i add the finishing touches. You can check my races out if you want. Its not like i go over board with props on the side walk. I just test drive my races talking every shot cut i can and then fill in the holes as naturally as possible By all means, I just meant that if your checkpoints indicate they can be hit on the sidewalk you should clarify that the can't by having the props more visible, and if the props aren't visible the checkpoints should probably clearly indicate you can't hit it on the sidewalk by being a little further out. (Keep in mind you can hit it just over a car length out from the yellow corona on the big checkpoints, and even more on the small ones.) It might be that they disliked your track not because they couldn't go on the sidewalks, but because they felt they were getting mixed messages. I don't know though, and you're free to do whatever you want of course. I just wanted to air it as something to think about when you place them down ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 14:56:12 GMT
It might be that they disliked your track not because they couldn't go on the sidewalks, but because they felt they were getting mixed messages. I don't know though, and you're free to do whatever you want of course. I just wanted to air it as something to think about when you place them down ;-) If i start messing with the check points, they start ending up all off set and can cause new holes to open up or confuse players. I mean i go back and constantly try to break my race just so i can plug any holes. A perfect example is vinewood tours. Im sure you know that straight where you can ride the side walk and then turn left off it. For me, id put one bench at the start of that straight and one exactly at the end where the turn out is.. Basically breaking that line from existence with two natural looking props that just blend in with the back ground. Sure i could add some big, easy to see barriers. But i find that shit distracting and not very natural looking. I prefer blended in props that does not distract me when driving while leaving most of the scenery as natural as possible. OR creating new scenery that blends in and feels right. Unless i really want players attentions, i won't be wasting any time trying to get. But if players go out of their way to avoid using the road and smash into objects off the road, well the 1st mistake was leaving the road. I mean, side walks are meant for walking... Due to the fact that side walks does increase speed and can allow for easier lines. I think that very important to block them. Which is why i made this topic.
|
|
|
Post by LuapYllier on Sept 7, 2014 17:39:08 GMT
While I very much like the concept Vooodu of keeping a race feeling natural I have found that the problem comes in that so many races have been made and raced that people have learned that there are certain ways that you can take certain corners and if they do not see a clear indication up front that that way is not available they assume that it is. Therefore your clever and natural feeling deterrent then becomes a deceitful and nasty punishment dished out to experienced drivers that would have been perfectly comfortable with being shown with very visible and clear indicators that that path was not to be used.
The GP races that I have made recently have focused more on trying to keep the falling debris out of the typical racing lines and not so much to remove sidewalk running. I see shortcuts and clever path choices as a sign of skill that should not be punished, however, if in making use of these often challenging path choices you cause undue obstacles and difficulties for the drivers behind you I see that as unfair. So For the hardcore racing tracks I attempted to remove those poles that would normally be knocked down. I did not however go into great lengths to block extreme lines on sidewalks.
To be honest I am not convinced that running on a sidewalk gives you any technical benefit in the performance of the car. What I am confident of though is that sidewalks can offer a widening of the entrance or exit of a corner and any widening of the corner will increase the speed with which that corner can be taken. This then increases your exit speed from said corner. Since every straight is determined by the exit speed of the previous corner it would make a big difference in the overall time of the race. That I believe is fair since any driver can make use of these risky paths. It becomes not fair if there are all kinds of debris left behind for the following drivers.
My typical street race variant though I prefer to just do checkpoints directing traffic and leave the drivers to make all the choices on risk value and things like poles in the road become actual strategies because winning a street race by any means is the game.
Just my opinions and I make no judgments on choices made by others.
|
|