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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 18, 2014 12:58:55 GMT
Hey yall,
i had an idea the other night and thought id drop it in here...
as we dont have a requirement for a particular level of skill in red rum i was wondering if anyone would be interested in creating a driving school based custom content.
Obv races are limited to racing, but as you can add vehicles to a DM there's some quite diverse things you could do.
I was thinking we could create a weaponless DM that has some vehicles placed (maybe one or two from each class) then some props in verious places that can be used for race training, so some tyre lines to create turns, chicanes etc.
That way if we get some new greenhorn members that need some pointers, rather than obliterating them in races, we could load up the DM Training school and show people how to properly approach corners, good racing lines etc before moving onto proper races
It would take some though to get it right but i know ive spoken to a couple of people that are concerned we would wipe the floor with them so dont look to join us because they dont feel they would be competitive, yet they would fit in the vibe of Red Rum...
So do we have a duty of care to do more than just race, but actually help train racers to become better?
thoughts on a postcard
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 13:16:50 GMT
I think this is a great idea!!!! And I want to be the first to sign up, I definitely need some pointers.
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Post by gtaplayer1 on Mar 18, 2014 13:19:04 GMT
This is.....interesting. :/ I just don't really understand the difference between using a deathmatch and using a race for the purpose of a "driving school". Still, it'll be nice to see how something like this will play out.
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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 18, 2014 13:45:50 GMT
This is.....interesting. :/ I just don't really understand the difference between using a deathmatch and using a race for the purpose of a "driving school". Still, it'll be nice to see how something like this will play out. well with a race you have to define checkpoints and a route etc. once you hit the checkpoint it disappears so your not getting a visual on the line you were taking.... plus your limited on the number of checkpoints with DM its pretty much just freeroam but you can place props so you could make a area that has different elements that you can repeat over and over. i think its just a little more creative and less restrictive than trying to do it in the race creator and for something like this as much creative freedom as possible is a good thing so rather than having to go through the checkpoints you can repeatedly try the same corner, run through a slalom course, test the boundarys of you and your vehicle.... at the moment its still conceptual but nice to see some positive reception for the idea.... if i spare an hour tonight i might make a preliminary "Red Rum Driving School" that we can work on refining, then see about recreating on xbox what i need are some ideas of what to include, so some tight chicanes, some smooth long corners.. some offroad/on road transitions....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 13:55:33 GMT
very good idea, I would take a few lessons and in DM you can choose a time frame and avoid continuous restarting of the job... but you can not start a DM alone...!?! there has to be at least 2 "students" to enter the classroom or is there a possiblity to start DMs for 1 player? do you think of doing this also as planned events, maybe with a teacher and up to 15 students?
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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 18, 2014 14:07:07 GMT
The time elemebt is a good point adderi
for solo practice/trainin we can all run races alone, and luap seems to be revitilising the weekly challenge
The idea for this would be that a more seasoned memeber or two would be able to give pointers and advice to less experienced members on their driving so obly bein able to launch w 2 or more players would be perfect (another reason for it bein dm)
As for arrangements it could bedone as an event, or if a new guy wants to invite a more experienved driver to help themout they could initiate and invite people to the driving school job and work on the thing they want to improve
What im tryin to get myhead aroubd is what would be useful in this kind of scenario.... Much likethesingle player flight school we could theme different jobsfor different things, so there could vea cornering school, an overtaking school, traffic avoidance school, off road school etc
But we need some ideas as to what would work and what people would want
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 14:25:26 GMT
Much likethesingle player flight school we could theme different jobsfor different things, so there could vea cornering school, an overtaking school, traffic avoidance school, off road school etc like in GTA SA ...joking apart, would be nice to have a mission creator for this
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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 18, 2014 14:30:55 GMT
Much likethesingle player flight school we could theme different jobsfor different things, so there could vea cornering school, an overtaking school, traffic avoidance school, off road school etc like in GTA SA ...joking apart, would be nice to have a mission creator for this i had totaly forgot about the driving school in SA... but yes... yes indeed... i may have to watch that video and get some ideas
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 14:34:07 GMT
I think this would be a good idea. I know I need some pointers and would love to get some advice from the faster and better RRR members. I think things like this, as long as they remain voluntary, will only make our crew stronger both in racing and camaraderie. Right now the only way I can learn is to hope that I can stick close enough to the fast guys and watch what they do...and sometimes that is a tall order when they are so fast.
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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 18, 2014 14:54:35 GMT
I think this would be a good idea. I know I need some pointers and would love to get some advice from the faster and better RRR members. I think things like this, as long as they remain voluntary, will only make our crew stronger both in racing and camaraderie. Right now the only way I can learn is to hope that I can stick close enough to the fast guys and watch what they do...and sometimes that is a tall order when they are so fast. as with everything we wouldnt force people to do things, its purely optional but i agree completely with the crew comraderie, for me thats always a big focus, ive been in many a playlist with crew members where ive come last in every race, sometimes bad days, sometimes out performed, but i stick it out because its fun and enjoyable because of the people im racing with, not whether i win or lose.... Thats where the comraderie is a really important factor as no matter your ability or skill level we should all be able to have fun together but being a racing crew we obviously want to see people improve and your right thunder, if someones just being left behind they dont get the opportunity to see some of the racing lines guys take, they dont get to know the little tricks and tips that some guys use to shave that extra 0,5 second off their lap times and hopefully something like this would help.... it would be completely formal, non competitive, wouldnt affect win/loss ratios for racing for those of you who have been in a lobby with me you'll know that i enjoy a good bit of banter when i race, but im also as constructive as possible when it comes to everything i do, be that feedback on custom races, giving people a headsup about particularly treacherous parts of a track, hauling ass across a public session to defend my crew mates from being killed..... likewise my threads over on the GTAF are always aimed at bringing poeple together, to improve performance and have a better gaming experience.... if it will be for the good of the crew, im a big supporter, so this idea is jsut an extension of that general ethos and perspective which has been a commonality among the crew since day 1 (when i joined, as the second member )
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Post by LuapYllier on Mar 18, 2014 15:40:22 GMT
I like it Mo...I like it a lot. Has a lot of potential. I think it should be done as a playlist. Each class for different specific work. Things like shortcuts, best way to slow for a corner, hair pin turns, lines through s curves, defending against dirty racing, lines for cornering, being aware of your minimap in crossovers etc.
It could be done with races and deathmatches for different purposes. Its been a while since I have seen the SA school does that vid cover all the classes?
Im all over this idea mo...in fact it sounds good to start tonight lol.
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Post by refuso on Mar 18, 2014 16:03:08 GMT
wouldnt affect win/loss ratios for racing Seems like the only benefit of using a DM to me. I thought races and DMs both had the same number of props limit so no DM advantage there if that's true. Also DMs cant have checkpoints? So a race could be better if we build the props around the CP so you have to take the best line. The big difference in a DM is you can get out of your car but I don't know why you'd need to? Actually I think you can get out on a GTA Race too? About the time thing I thought a race only ends/starts the countdown to the end when people finish it. So if it's a school lesson you can just turn around and try the corner as many times as you like and as long as long as the finish line is far away it'll be ok? Anyway sounds like a good idea. I'll definitely be signing up for some lessons Should probably check number of people/availability on PS3 side first. Most PS3ers I hang out with don't have much time. Generally we meet up, someone puts a PL together, we run it, they have to leave. So question is would they rather spend their time in school or racing? I do find it funny that some people are scared to join though lol. I remember when I first joined there were people I couldn't get near but I can generally keep up now. Actually a better example would Trak. I remember a few months ago (on his old char) he was usually finishing in the bottom of the table but he was getting 1st places last night. Great improvement just from keeping at it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 16:17:57 GMT
Hmm sounds interesting Mo. I must confess to being somewhat wary when I enter races that are RRR, not because Im bothered about coming last (thats almost a dead cert), Im more bothered about making a prize tit of myself on the track by taking some of you guys out of the race with my ineptitude.
I just dont really understand how I manage to get so far behind so quickly, maybe I should reword that, I just dont know how you guys manage to get so far ahead so quickly :-) Last time a raced with you and Sennilson I remember saying that you two were so far ahead I thought you were in a different county! Im generally fairly content with my lot if I dont get a 'DNF' and dont finish last.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 16:22:40 GMT
Trak bombs now, he's definitely been to driving school the past few weeks lol
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Post by Cuz05 on Mar 18, 2014 16:29:49 GMT
Just don't let Ref set the checkpoints...
But time, yeah I don't have much. Not that I'd make a particularly good student or teacher, lol. I'd certainly be interested to try the creation. I see it 2 ways.... DM in a really open area with test zones marked by props, 50 limit would be a big factor, selection of vehicles available. Like Ref says, a custom race with ideal lines heavily constrained by props. Benefit there is its something people can practice solo.
Racing Trak now is like racing a different man, lol. I think he's been practicing on your sinuous list, I can't catch him at all on those kind of courses now. Never been that great at em mind you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 16:58:49 GMT
I seen this driving school mentioned on another forum the other day and thought it sounded a bit uppity but you put it across better mo.
You get a set number of props, weapons etc so there's more stuff can be placed in DM creator than race...you could have a line of Parachute's along the ideal line through corners for example
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Post by coach_wargo on Mar 18, 2014 18:19:18 GMT
I would love to take part in something like this. Like marginhunter, I pretty much get smoked not long after the start of a race.
A ride along would really be helpful, so maybe a series of team GTA races would be even better. The "teacher" drives and the student rides along. The teacher would be be giving instruction and talking through what they are doing; things such as brake here, "lift there, accelerate at this point, etc. Maybe run a a few laps with the instructor driving and a few with the student driving.
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Post by Mo-seph on Mar 19, 2014 10:37:29 GMT
well im glad its a well recieved idea and im not jsut talking comeplte crap... ill be inerested to see what you come up with @luap @swifty - well here was me thinking i had a unique idea hahaha... i aca see that it could be seen as a pretentious sort of idea, which is why i gave it some thought before posting and asked you guys before creating anything. yall know im not the kind of guy to just make it and say "yea we need this, people are shit and we need to teach them" for me its more about the "students" who want some more advice or direction from more seasoned members, rather than the more seasoned members say "bitch, where did you earn your license... ebay?" but we have a wealth of experience in the crew and those who are new to racing can learn from that... i know being in 5th place i learn about better driving lines by watching the guy in front, but in a less competitive environment we can be more cooperative in how thats achieved. Good to know that you can place more props in DM than races (ive never made a DM), it makes sense as races have to generate the cp's aswell as the props, whereas DM is just props & spawn points. I do also like the idea of placing parachutes or some other "ghost" prop in the driving line, so you could set out a tyre line s-bend then put the parachutes in the shortest route from start to finish of the bend..... the "student" (im not sure if i like that term yet) would just need to drive straight through the parachutes to get the idea of the perfect line. coach_wargo - i do also like the idea of a ride along, spectating is one thing but actually being able to get a "drivers eye" view while being able to chat on mics would be a much better learning environment, another reason that DM would be good because you can get 2 guys in one car and take it in turns to drive the "school" with the "teacher" running through their preferred lines, then the "student" replicating... ill have a dig at trying to make something in the next couple of days..... if anyone beats me to it (heres lookin at you luap) pot up a link in this thread so we can keep a track of all the "driving School" content and give each other feedback and share some ideas.... knowledge is power guys...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 11:27:48 GMT
coach_wargo - i do also like the idea of a ride along, spectating is one thing but actually being able to get a "drivers eye" view while being able to chat on mics would be a much better learning environment, another reason that DM would be good because you can get 2 guys in one car and take it in turns to drive the "school" with the "teacher" running through their preferred lines, then the "student" replicating... I never done a team-gta-race, I think there's also 2 guys in one car... that's what coachwargo had in mind, but I'm not sure about the possiblities in team-gta-races... another way to do lessons like this would be to do it with rally races, there's a setting for swap roles (driver/co-driver) by trigger a respawn, so the "student" can take over the steering wheel without restarting the race. I don't think that this ever happens... but if there are more than 1 interested at the same time, they can accept the invitation after the job has started and spectate the lesson...
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Post by gtaplayer1 on Mar 19, 2014 11:33:04 GMT
Definitely sounds better now. I was a little confused with it at first, but from what you said, I can picture something already. I'd like to be a "teacher" for it, but since I have no mic, well, I guess I'll leave it to other guys. Though I'll try making a short track in a DM later on just to see how well it would work. Honestly, I'm not a very good "creator" with the content creator, but I'd give it a shot for this cause. If it makes the cut, I'll be happy, but if it doesn't....at least I tried lol. refuso I read your comment saying that you used to not be able to keep up with others, but I remembered when I first race with you, you smoked everyone by a big margin lol.
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Post by LuapYllier on Mar 19, 2014 11:48:22 GMT
After thinking about this last night I dont think I am going to be making anything for this. Frankly I cant see anyone on xbox side participating. (Looks quietly at forum participation and consoles) it has given me a couple ideas for very short lap races though that could develop some simple skills.
I dont mean to put it down in any way...I like the idea. Just different sort of people over here.
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Post by nittydon on Mar 19, 2014 12:52:40 GMT
Yeah Xboxers generally have a lower IQ Luap !! Sounds a good idea, but perhaps a bit basic, I would of thought anyone joining a racing crew would no their accelerator from their brake ! I think the lessons to be taught is how and when to overtake someone, what to do in the event of a pile up, etc.
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Post by gtaplayer1 on Mar 19, 2014 12:59:41 GMT
Yeah Xboxers generally have a lower IQ Luap !! Sounds a good idea, but perhaps a bit basic, I would of thought anyone joining a racing crew would no their accelerator from their brake ! I think the lessons to be taught is how and when to overtake someone, what to do in the event of a pile up, etc. More of the best racing lines to take. If they want to learn what to do in a pile up, that would really come around as they race with randoms. If a driving school can't be done on GTA5, then....bring your wallets out cause Gran Turismo is your best bet.
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Post by gtaplayer1 on Mar 19, 2014 13:02:37 GMT
Just finished creating a prototype version of the driving school to test out the capabilities of it. From what I did, it was very hard to manage 50 props to create a short-ish race course because there's no way for the driver (or even the teacher/instructor) to know which way to go due to the absence of checkpoints. I'll send the SC link to Mo to show it. Since it's just a prototype, I'm sure others in the crew will be able to create far better courses than me.
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Post by nittydon on Mar 20, 2014 12:23:29 GMT
Yeah Xboxers generally have a lower IQ Luap !! Sounds a good idea, but perhaps a bit basic, I would of thought anyone joining a racing crew would no their accelerator from their brake ! I think the lessons to be taught is how and when to overtake someone, what to do in the event of a pile up, etc. More of the best racing lines to take. If that's the case I would probably think it would be better to do this in official R* races as apart from these and my own creations I don't know the fastest lines myself !! Playing custom content means I'm usually playing a new race most times so am still learning lines, breaking zones, etc.
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Post by LuapYllier on Mar 20, 2014 12:31:56 GMT
Again wishing I had the money to get what I need for video capture. So many good uses for it. I just pictured making a narated video of driving the rockstar tracks at minimal speed along the most desirable lines. Could explain the benefits and reasoning as you roll along.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 13:00:47 GMT
Again wishing I had the money to get what I need for video capture. So many good uses for it. I just pictured making a narated video of driving the rockstar tracks at minimal speed along the most desirable lines. Could explain the benefits and reasoning as you roll along. This would be awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 13:53:28 GMT
Didn't read everyone's posts in this thread but am throwing in my 2 cents. Couldn't we use the same concept as a weapon less DM, and use weapons placed on the map as check points? Or even use specific props which imply a left or right turn is ahead. I played one race with a friend using a similar concept called Super cars vs Planes. The cars used GTA race repair markers as chdck points, the guy in the plane was also able to see those markers. It at least gave a sense of direction to a sandbox style deathmatch/gta race
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Post by gtaplayer1 on Mar 20, 2014 23:15:51 GMT
Didn't read everyone's posts in this thread but am throwing in my 2 cents. Couldn't we use the same concept as a weapon less DM, and use weapons placed on the map as check points? Or even use specific props which imply a left or right turn is ahead. I played one race with a friend using a similar concept called Super cars vs Planes. The cars used GTA race repair markers as chdck points, the guy in the plane was also able to see those markers. It at least gave a sense of direction to a sandbox style deathmatch/gta race Actually... This is a really good idea. Could help with allowing more props and larger map space, but for some reason, vehicle repair markers don't show up in any of the prototype DM's I've made so far.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 3:49:18 GMT
its been said before but i think it would be better if we used existing tracks with a high number of laps in rally fashion so the "student" could ride along with the instructor and no one would suffer the loss penalty. we could walk through lines slowly and talk out the nuances of each track and the student can ask questions, etc. but i really like this idea and would definitely sign up haha
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